GMO debate

Excellent points, everyone! Exactly. As I said, these are not hybrids, they are genetically modified. They incorporate bacteria and viruses into the GM foods and we don't truly know how they affect us. I think we are starting to see all of the adverse reactions now after nearly 20 years of GMO's. All I know is that I look around and see all of these sick people, even young people and I know something isn't right. Every single one of us here falls into this category, so why wouldn't we question it? Way too many kids on drugs and way too many people with dementia, cancer and autoimmune disorders. It's becoming normal and people, this is not normal.

Posey is right about nature. We are not respecting it. GMO's are cross-breeding with natural crops and soon, we will not have natural foods or seeds any more. Isn't that cause for concern? There is an actual seed vault - what's that all about?

www.croptrust.org/what-we-do/svalbard-global-seed-vault/

This is very different from dog breeds. They are mainly cross breeds and as Rob said, we don't ingest them. There is no harm that comes from a pugle or a labradoodle. If they start cross breeding species though I will have a problem with that.

There are studies that prove that GMO's are harmful, but they are blown off because there are also studies that say they are harmless. I'd question where those studies come from because I believe that money, greed and corruption trump safety. GMO's were originally created to 'feed the world' and that hasn't happened. Not even close, so what good are they?

I appreciate the debate.

There is an heirloom "seed bank" in our town. The owner has collected many heirloom seeds and sells them in the store and all over the country. I think preserving these old varieties is very important, and hey there might be wonderful disease resistant varieties from the 19th century that we don't know about. Maybe Monsanto should spend its billions to research and grow these heirloom varieties?!~ yah right, doubtful. I've had heirloom apples that were the best apples I've ever tasted- but they are odd shaped, not red and don't ship well so have gotten rejected for supermarkets and nearly lost in history. quote below is from the website:

www.rareseeds.com/get-to-know-baker-creek/petaluma-seed-bank/

The company offers 1,800 varieties of vegetables, flowers and herbs—the largest selection of heirloom varieties in the USA... Baker Creek carries one of the largest selections of seeds from the 19th century, including many Asian and European varieties. The company has become a tool to promote and preserve our agricultural and culinary heritage.

Speaking of taste....I shop at a local organic store. I bought some radishes and cucumbers in the past few weeks and they were the best I've tasted in a very long time. I didn't know vegetables could be so good, and I have always loved and eaten vegetables. I've been eating whole cucumbers for dinner just because they were so good. I don't think we realize what we're missing. I didn't.

I'm just curious if you all are just debating or if you are trying to change things?

I am an oxymoron by nature. For instance I do not eat veggies. My main food intake comes from high fat process take out food. I do try and shop local or fair trade although I have an amazing shoe collection (mainly name brands). Most of my cleaning supplies are supposed to be fairly harmless to the environment and yet I still use bleach and chemicals. I do low impact/ leave no trace camping yet I still love a good campfire.

I go to our local market and try to buy pesticide fee items but they are very few and far between. There is a place about 40 minutes away that sells meat that is free range and only inject the minimum needed according to safety regulations. That said they are 40 minutes away so I do not go out of my way to drive there.

When I was growing up I was raised on fresh cows milk (this was before they pasteurized it). Now I grab the cheapest milk in the grocery store. I am as well known at my local health food shop as I am at the local pizza parlour.

Melinda: I sometimes wonder what we as individuals can do? I mean I sign petitions and share posts on social media. Not sure it really makes a difference but who knows! I do believe that debates like this bring forth valuable information. This give the individual the chance to make an informed decision.

I watched a documentary called "cowspiracy" they basically said that the large cattle farms produce more gasses that eat away at the ozone layer than large manufactures. Is it true who knows but it sure got me thinking.


PS: I want to say thank you to everyone for the great links as they are interesting reads. That said I maybe 95 before I finish reading at the rate I read!

Melinda wrote: I'm just curious if you all are just debating or if you are trying to change things?

Change what? I thought it was a debate.

Julia:

I saw half of Cowspiracy. I wanted to finish it but never got back to it. Quite interesting.

Here's more about GMO's. Read it, don't read it. Believe it, don't believe it. I'm inclined to ask myself, "What if it is true?"

“Several animal studies indicate serious health risks associated with genetically modified (GM) food (AAEM 2009),” including infertility, immune problems, accelerated aging, faulty insulin regulation, and changes in major organs and the gastrointestinal system. The AAEM has asked physicians to advise all patients to avoid GM foods."

responsibletechnology.org/gmo-education/health-risks/

In my view, one of the core issues in the GMO debate comes under the idea of the Precautionary Principle. We the consumers of the food should be very cautious about any biologically novel substance and demand very compelling evidence of no downside. The producers have the opposite incentives: bring new products to market as fast as possible. This creates an inherent conflict, obviously. I've been following this debate as best as I can for about 20 years and am still avoiding GMOs, mostly because I want to be extremely confident (six sigma or so) about safety, particularly in the long term. I don't quite think we're there yet.

P.S.: Noticed "Cowspiracy" on Netflix but haven't watched it.

Sandi wrote: Change what? I thought it was a debate.

Thank you Sandi, of course you are right - this is a debate so probably I shouldn't have asked. But did you notice I said "...just curious...". Wasn't judging anyone, wasn't saying one should try to change things or one shouldn't try to change things - just saying I was curious IF !

Now I'm curious...change what? Do you mean actually trying to stop GMO production or change something here on the forum?

There was a very large March Against Monsanto protest last weekend. It didn't make the news.

Aoi:

Agree. Part of the problem is that any safety studies that have been done were conducted by the companies that produce GMO's. Then you end up with 100 articles from different media sources that quote the safety. Any time an independent lab conducts a study and has a negative finding, it is immediately discredited, Snopes grabs it, or it's not made public. It's hard to get the truth because obviously, there are never going to be any negative safety studies that are not debunked. If 60 other countries have banned GMO's, that says something. Apparently, Monsanto is having trouble feeding the world, so they are going to make darn sure that they feed all of America. And therein the corruption lies.

The PDSA Executive Director and I are in the middle of a discussion about my replacement. She has two people that are willing to do it together, but stated that I could stay if I choose to. I have a decision to make. I wish we could have an anonymous vote.

Sandi,

Do you mean a poll to determine whether you should leave or stay? Really??

I have not sensed that anyone wants you to go, unless you need to go for health or other personal reasons. You are doing a terrific job, in terms of your knowledge, your compassion, your passion, and your ability to communicate. You always seem to know the right thing to say, without saying too much (as I am prone to do!). Our debates have always shed much more light than heat. This is an unusually informative health forum, thanks to everyone here, but we wouldn't be here if you had not made this a safe and informative place to address our fears.

If you really want an anonymous poll, www.surveymonkey.com should be able to do it for you, for little or no cost. But it hurts my heart that you should have any doubt what the results would be.

If you really need to go, then no one here would hold you back, and we will work hard to sustain what you have created. But please don't go away thinking your work here has in some way been found lacking, or hasn't been appreciated. I wish you knew just how much it is appreciated!

I echo Rob. I love you! You kept me from jumping off the cliff. I have my spleen because of you! You have been incredibly supportive, calm, informative, genuine, funny, inquisitive.....

I've never seen anyone moderate a forum as capably as Sandi. I've said it before, Sandi you should write a book on how to do it. Literally.

Erica

I'll happily indicate my anonymous vote for Sandi here. I've been online every day since 1991 and this really is an extremely well-run forum, and the best of the various medical forums my health problems have led me to over the years.

How about an assistant moderator or two? Would that reduce the burden or ease the troubles that are leading to the current indecision about staying on as the moderator?

Separate note about GMOs: Exactly what are they actually good for? Some recent articles I read (mind you, not well sourced) suggested that GMOs do not significantly increase yield or reduce pesticide use or otherwise reduce environmental impact/burden. I'll follow up on this matter as time permits, since it strikes me as possibly relevant. If GMOs aren't better at anything, why even bother with the question of health?

Thank you. I truly appreciate the comments. I'll consider all of them.

Let me try to articulate this. I don't mind debates on topics, in fact, I encourage it. It provides information and sparks discussions about topics that we don't normally talk about. I've ignored the Natural Treatments Section most of the time I've been been here (many years). I never minded it, but I didn't participate much and I'll admit that at times, I even got irritated with comments. I usually overlooked it though because that was someone's belief. I have seen it all over the years. The worst one was the woman who believed that drinking her own urine cured her ITP. Yep...this is true.

Anyway, my beliefs have changed now and I have become an advocate for changes in lifestyle. I have clearly explained my reasons. There are others who feel this way, and I see no harm in communicating with those who feel the same. As long as I am Administrator, I will keep doing it because I wholeheartedly believe in it. I've researched long and hard for quite a while.

As I said, I don't mind dissent. It's good to hear pros and cons on any topic. What bothered me were comments about not coming to the Forum anymore because of these discussions or asking what this has to do with ITP. I think it could have everything to do with ITP. Maybe not for everyone, but there are a lot of people who would be willing to change their diet rather than go through the treatments. Some have. I would never advocate for someone with symptoms and counts under 5k to eat differently instead treating. You'll never see that happen. I think I've kept things pretty sensible on the rest of the board. I think everyone is valuable here and I do not want to chase anyone away. I'd leave before I let that happen and that is the point where I was, and still am. My personal life is in shambles at the moment, more than most of you know, and honestly, I don't need the hassle. I'm only saying this because we have been a family for so long. Sorry about the personal drama I am causing here lately; that's not me. Those of you who know me know that. Maybe sometimes we need to clear the air.

So, bottom line after this long-winded speech...the PDSA fully supports the Natural Treatments Section. That stance is not going to change in the near future. Joan Young, the founder, started it and strongly believes that natural methods cured her ITP. She wrote a book about it and if you've read it, you know that she had a huge struggle. The current Executive Director also believes that diet change played a huge role in curing her ITP. I know we don't like the word 'cure', but they have both been in remission for a long time. I used to scoff at the idea too, but not anymore. I was feeling like I was doing something wrong all this time because I seemed to upset people. That is not my intention and I don't want to stay if that is the result. I realize that if you don't like the topic though you can certainly choose to avoid reading it, but that wasn't happening. I'm not super-sensitive and I can take criticism, but I will not stay at the expense of anyone else.

Sandi,

I can't promise that if you stay no one will be annoyed by certain discussions, that no one will think some of your ideas have no merit, or that no one will stop coming here because of it. If that reality is too much of a hassle given the other stressors in your life, I understand. If you need to leave, I want you to do so knowing that the vast majority of us will feel a great sense of loss, and that your efforts here have been very, very much worthwhile. But as much as you have done for the rest of us, it is your turn to do what is best for you, whatever that might be.

Rob

Thanks, Rob. I'm still thinking. :blink:

Sandi,

I have not been on here for a long time ( but it was not you, life took over), however, I appreciate all that you have done for this group. You were so supportive and gave excellent strategies and advice in my very dark times. I just want to say thank you!

In the news is a possible ban of GMOs in my northern California county. Farm groups and consumers are fighting GMOS and have gotten enough signatures to get in on the ballot. There are farmers in the area that don't want the cross-contamination. Heres an article-

www.pressdemocrat.com/news/5650401-181/gmo-ban-headed-to-voters

Sandy,
You have always been an inspiration to me!! You have been a life saver at times. I'm with you concerning medications--they are not a good way to go for me. I've seen so many people from the past forum and some from here who have suffered so much. I really like the "food" route as the way to go--if possible. I'm not always going the right thing--but I do try. Exercise and good food, if possible!

If I'm am going to be honest about the PDSA forum, I would have to say that the other forum was oriented more towards people and not the pharmaceutical companies (who run this forum and the conference). Now, I still thoroughly enjoy this forum (some people go directly to the FB page). When Joan started the forum years ago, I'm sure it was a lot different.

I'm just glad that you have seen the "light" and are trying to get off of some of the medications that are causing so many problems. Hopefully, I didn't just offend anyone. I even remember when Audie (?) use to post and I remember her. Good luck on your journey (and I remember the photo when you got married!)

Glyphosates (the herbicide used in Round-up and other pesticides) is regularly sprayed on GMO crops. It has been labeled a probable carcinogen by the World Health Organization. The newest study from the University of California says 93% of Americans have it in their bodies.

livingmaxwell.com/93-percent-americans-glyphosate-urine