Flu/Swine shot

I have chronic ITP, which has never been a problem. I'm just wondering if the flu/swine shot I had in October could have been the reason my platelets fell over 5 weeks' time to a low of 2,000. Had the shot October 6th and started seeing the symptoms of ITP almost 2 weeks after that. I'm still trying to figure out what made them plummet.

It seems that some of us get platelet drops in response to vaccinations including flu. Personally I get the flu shot every year and have not had platelet response to it. But I decided to pass for now on a tetanus booster for fear of an immune system reaction.
Erica

Thanks Ellen. I knew a girl in high school by the name of Ellen Klein - that's who I thought of when I saw your name. Been getting flu shots for 16 years, but this was first year that the flu is combined with swine. I'm still concerned about "new" vaccines and lack of major testing (especially for people with bad immune systems - I have Sjogren's, etc.), but this is the way they're given now. I'll ask my hematologist next time i see him.

ITP has been one of the reported side effects of the most recent flu vaccine.The other vaccines most commonly associated with ITP as a side effect are the MMR and the DPT. See below for more lovely side effects:

Unfortunately, the safety of these shots is highly questionable, and even more so now that the new trivalent vaccine containing influenza A, influenza B, and 2009 pandemic swine flu (H1N1) strains is being administered.

In Finland, France and Sweden, narcolepsy was reported in teenage children in response to Pandemrix monovalent swine flu vaccine, leading the Finnish government to suspend its use. In Korea, nearly 2,600 swine flu vaccine side effects were reported as of August 2010, ranging from allergic reactions to fevers to headaches—and including 10 deaths. Australia has banned it's use in children under 5, after numerous children developed seizures shortly after receiving it.

According to Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), a special government committee has also been created to investigate the 2009/2010 H1N1 monovalent “swine flu” vaccine for signs it may be associated with more adverse reactions. What the committee found out provisionally is that there were three signs of increased reaction risks with the 2009/2010 H1N1 swine flu vaccine, which is now in this year’s trivalent influenza vaccine.

Fisher outlined these three primary health concerns in an influenza vaccine update:

1. Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS), an autoimmune disease that has been associated with influenza vaccine since 1976, when the swine flu vaccine was first used. In fact, British government health experts acknowledged the link between the H1N1 vaccine and an increased risk of GBS last fall. Prior to this public admittance, the government had always denied such a link
2. Idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura (ITP), an autoimmune disorder, is a blood clotting disorder characterized by insufficient platelets
3. Bell’s palsy, a reaction causing temporary facial paralysis

And, remember, all vaccines are immune suppressive — that is, they suppress your immune system, which may not return to normal for weeks to months. Here are just some of the ways vaccines impair and alter your immune response:

* Some components in vaccines are neurotoxic and may cause immune and brain dysfunction, particularly heavy metals such as mercury preservatives and aluminum adjuvants
* The lab-altered vaccine viruses and bacteria themselves may further impair your immune response
* Foreign DNA/RNA from animal tissues can wreak havoc in your body and trigger serious health problems for some people
* Vaccines may alter your t-cell function and lead you to become chronically ill
* Vaccines can trigger allergies by introducing large foreign protein molecules into your body that have not been properly broken down by your digestive tract (since they are injected). Your body can respond to these foreign particles in the form of an allergic reaction

turq,
The information I gave you comes from my personal experience and what I've read on this discussion board.

The information from april comes from an anti-vaccination group you can read more about here:
www.skepdic.com/fisherbl.html

It's always good to know the source of information as you evaluate what is likely to be best for your own health.

I know that many of us who are immune suppressed have been cautioned about vaccinations made from live viruses versus dead virus vaccination. As you evaluate your options, that's another factor to consider. The nasal spray flu vaccination is made from live virus, while the shot is from dead virus.

Here's a link to more info from the National Institute of Health:
foiltheflu.nih.gov/faq.htm

Hope your platelets make a rebound soon.
Erica

Erika,

The information regarding the various side effects were originally reported by many various news organizations--it's not like Barbara Loe Fisher made them up! After seeing these happen in so many people, especially children, other governments decided to ban them in certain age groups. Do you really think it wise to just ignore this? Many times on this site I've seen parents or adults who reported that their ITP developed within 2-4 weeks, and this is almost always brushed off as 'coincidence'.

And, just because someone is anti-vaccine does not mean they are evil or stupid. The vaccination decision is a heated discussion. Frankly, the skeptidic site you sent us to is rather sensationalist--there's a lot of disparaging remarks thrown around, but it sounds like it's been written by an 8th grader--there's little of real substance to it at all.
Barbara Loe Fisher has never been totally against vaccines, but is trying to push for safer vaccines, accountability and truly informed choice.

As to personal experience, in the fall, there was a big push to get everybody vaccinated for whooping cough, as there has been a big outbreak of it here in California. I attended one of their so-called "informational" meetings where they used much the same tactics of the above site to discredit the theory that vaccines are responsible for the huge increase in autism, and to push getting a second DPT shot. I've got to tell you, there was near mutiny in that room, as parent after parent was just not buying their rhetoric . This was largely a refugee population. Many of them came to this country when their kids were 10 or older, and were of course fully vaccinated. Because records were not always obtainable, many of them received vaccines that they'd already been given. Within days to weeks these previously normal children became severely autistic or developed epilepsy or lost their ability to walk. These were surely impassioned parents, as they well should be, as obviously, they are the ones that will have to care for their children the rest of their lives. Though the researcher and other speakers stood up there blandly smiling at us, and they kept repeating that vaccines don't cause autism, no one in the room was buying it, and the atmosphere was VERY intense. As a homeopath, I have worked with quite a few children that developed autism, major food allergies, seizures or ITP within days to weeks after their vaccines. I simply do not accept their arguments that all of these parents are imagining things, just hysterical moms, and that this is all just some poor coincidence. I do not believe that they are the only cause, but they are surely significant. Each person varies in what they bring genetically to the table, and while some may be able to handle a few vaccines, the 3rd or 4th one may be the tipping point. Besides the fact that before children's immune systems are even developed, we are injecting them with multiple vaccines at the same time (4-9 vaccines are typical at one time). No wonder their immune systems might become confused!

Why is it, too, that even when there is research on various vaccines and drugs that have been shown to have ITP as a side effect, most on this site seem to brush it off like it was nothing, and act like we are totally clueless as to what may cause it? Like other things, I do believe there are multiple reasons, but common sense and reasoning tells me we should at least pay attention to this.

april,
I didn't say anyone was evil or stupid. Also I wasn't able to find the statements you quoted but failed to cite in any news organization source - they were only in releases from the anti-vacc groups. Feel free to cite these news sources! I welcome information even - especially! when it challenges my initial position!

One exception - I was able to find solid information about narcolepsy in Finland - that was very interesting! Wow. Apparently there is some sort of genetic propensity for narcolepsy found among Finns, and those who had the vaccination had a higher incidence of narcolepsy than those who didn't, suggesting that if you have that genetic marker the vaccine could trigger the disease. The numbers were small but if you have Finnish ancestry certainly something to think about.

Also I don't agree that many here treat lightly the possibility of ITP as a side effect - in fact, in my post I mentioned that I was passing on the tetanus vacc - this is primarily influenced by another member who sees a very probably connection between that vaccination and a reoccurrance of her ITP. I've mentioned the tetanus issue in other posts and there has been extensive discussion on this board of the pros and cons of risking the disease versus risking possibly side effects including ITP.

As this is not the natural treatments folder (where different points of view are not welcome), I believe we are each free to point out information that may be useful to others. Erica

April when I saw your first post I looked for the site where you got the information you posted - didn't see one. We all should remember to cite the site.

Turqfeathers all of us are different as to how we will respond to what. My ITP was triggered by a gamma globulin injection, gamma globulin is IVIg which is a treatment for ITP.

As to those who say bad flu shot - my friend in another state recently attended the funeral of a 3 year old girl who died from complications of the flu.

Just my .02, but since I'm an adult in Canada and not a teenager in Finland, France or Sweden, I'll keep getting my flu shots and whatever vaccinations I need. I had no trouble with the H1N1 when I got that, nor have I had any issues with any other shots I have gotten.

Like Melinda said, we are all different in how we respond to everything ITP related.

Vaccinations are the art of balancing the risks with the benefits. It's a sad fact that medicine isn't bullet proof and for every rule and for every safe vaccination scheme, there will be an tiny percentage of people who are the exception and will have a bad reaction. It is up to each person or each family to decide if a vaccination is right for them, but the crux of the matter is whether the risk of the condition the vaccination will prevent is more dangerous than the possible side effects.

In the UK, in spite of links between MMR and autism being so tenuous (a sample of 12 people is not a large enough test group to give an accurate picture) and in spite of it being dismissed as nonsense by countless doctors and people within the medical profession and Andrew Wakefield has since been struck off the medical register for professional misconduct, still it keeps weedling it's way back into the media with hysterical parents terrified that their children may develop autism, but not in the least bit concerned about what Measles, Mumps and Rubella might do instead. Vaccination rates still haven't completely recovered from their pre-scare levels and instead we're seeing a resurgence of some very dangerous childhood diseases which are far more problematic if contracted by adults. Measles is unpleasant, fatal in some cases and can leave both adults and children with disabilities.

But it is everyone's choice. Knowing that flu will decimate my platelet counts and possibly kill me, hands down I'd rather have my shot every autumn and hope for the best.

Here is the original article that I took my post from, as I have found Dr. Mercola to be reliable and efficient in gathering together and evaluating health information. This information is almost always taken from stories that are published in the national news, as well as many professional journals. Over the years, I’ve found that I can trust his reports. But, if you are unfamiliar with him or don’t choose to believe a word he says, you should be able to fairly easily verify what he says with a minimal amount of research on your part. (And, please, don’t freak out if you have to register to keep reading the article. That is your choice or not, but is not an unusual request. It is free, and you’re never required to buy anything. I never have, but I still benefit from some very good information, as I don't always have the time to research everything myself.) You asked--here it is:

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/12/alert--seizures-now-reported-in-kids-receiving-flu-vaccine.aspx

If you or your child has had a reaction to a flu vaccine, be sure to report it to the
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), a national vaccine safety surveillance program. Here’s the website: vaers.hhs.gov/index

An important aspect of VAERS is that anyone can both read and post vaccine adverse events to this database. So if your doctor discounts your concerns when your child regresses or gets ill after a vaccine, you can and should report them yourself.

Here is the source of Barbara Loe Fisher's statement about the flu shot being investigated for reports of GBS, Bell's Palsy and ITP:

From the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

[PDF] Seasonal Influenza
... Will predominantly focus on Bell's Palsy, ITP, GBS, and febrile seizures Page
10. ... Palsy, GBS, and TP/ITP Page 12. Dept. of Veterans Affairs (VA) ...
www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/meetings/upcomingmeetings/salmon_presentation.pdf
- 2010-
10-29

National Vaccine Advisory Committee Teleconference ...
... three specific adverse events: Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS),
thrombocytopenia/idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (TP/ITP), and Bell's ...
www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/meetings/pastmeetings/minutes20100423.html
- 32k - 2010-05-01
[ More results from www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/meetings ]

National Vaccine Advisory Committee
... H1N1 monovalent inactivated vaccine: Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS),
thrombocytopenia/idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (TP/ITP) and Bell's ...
www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/reports/vsrawg_repot_may2010.html
- 27k - 2010-06-02

From Australian newspapers: Flu vaccination ban goes national after fever, convulsions in children

From the WA NEWS (Australian newspaper)
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-vaccination-ban-goes-national-after-fever-convulsions-in-children-20100423-tglp.html

www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-could-deliver-chaos-for-wa-hospitals-20100614-y9e9.html


www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-reactions-throw-cloud-over-immunisation-program-20100427-to2j.html

Seasonal flu shots have caused adverse reactions in 251 children under five in Western Australia, the state’s chief health officer says.

Authorities last week suspended seasonal flu vaccinations for children under five across Australia, following a high level of bad reactions among children.

In Western Australia, 55 children suffered convulsions after having the vaccination, and almost 200 others suffered fevers and vomiting, chief health officer Dr Tarun Weeramanthri said.

One child remains in a serious but stable condition at Princess Margaret Hospital.

Japan Halts Vaccines After Children Die
Deaths of Four Children Prompt Pfizer, Sanofi-Aventis Vaccine Halt
The Associated Press
abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=13073863

TOKYO March 7, 2011 (AP)

Japan has temporarily stopped using vaccines from U.S. drugmaker Pfizer Inc. and Sanofi-Aventis SA of France while it investigates the deaths of four children who were inoculated, the health ministry said Monday.

The decision to halt the vaccines against pneumonia, some types of meningitis and other infections was made Saturday. The government is hearing from experts at a meeting Tuesday, the health ministry said.

The four children, from under six months to 2 years old, died between March 2 and March 4. The deaths occurred the same day to three days after the vaccines were administered, the ministry said.

The vaccination began in Japan about a year to two years ago. The vaccines have been administered to 1 million to 1.5 million children, according to the ministry.

Pfizer in Japan said the company was cooperating with the investigation on the Prevenar vaccine. The U.S. has been using Prevenar for about 10 years, the company said.

Sanofi-Aventis in Japan said its ActHIB vaccine was approved in France in 1992, and a year later in the U.S.

From The Korea Herald-Side effects of swine flu vaccine, August, 2010


www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20100827000668

A lawmaker Friday warned of the side effects of the swine flu vaccine, saying more than 2,000 suspected cases have been reported to health authorities.

According to the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a total of 2,593 side-effect cases were reported here, Rep. Shim Jae-cheol of the ruling Grand National Party said.

The cases included light symptoms such as fevers, headaches and allergic responses as well as 10 deaths, he said.

The KCDC reviewed some 180 cases seeking compensation and covered the treatment costs for 88 cases, nearly half of the total.

However, no compensation was offered to those who died, as the disease control agency could not find any medical correlation to the flu shots.

“There is a possibility of the flu shots causing side effects in some individuals. Rather than pushing to consume the vaccines in stock, the government needs to be more cautious in giving the flu shots,” Shim said.

Health authorities, however, claimed that the side effects of the swine flu vaccine are found in other seasonal flu shots as well, urging the public not to overreact.

In preparation for a new flu outbreak in the winter, the government plans to start this year’s vaccinations from September, officials said.

The government recommended that infants under 59 months, pregnant women, senior citizens and people with chronic diseases receive the flu shots that will be offered free of charge by May next year.

Even though the World Health Organization declared earlier this month that the flu pandemic is over, health officials advised citizens, especially travelers to India, New Zealand and Thailand, to take extra care in personal hygiene.

The WHO said on Aug. 10 that the 2009-10 H1N1 influenza pandemic ended officially.

“The new H1N1 influenza has largely run its course,” WHO Director-General Margaret Chan said. “We are now moving into the post-pandemic period.”

Some regions may see localized outbreaks of the flu virus, she noted, but overall activity is expected to be about normal for the season.

More than 214 countries worldwide have reported laboratory-confirmed cases of the virus, including over 18,449 deaths, as of Aug. 1.

In Korea, some 252 death cases have been confirmed, with half of them aged over 65.

By Lee Ji-yoon (jylee@heraldm.com)

Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) Project Priority Studies from the CDC
www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Activities/vsd/priority_studies.html


Topics on This Page
Flu Vaccine and Bell's Palsy
MMR Vaccine and ITP
Thimerosal and Autism
Thimerosal and Neurodevelopment
Yellow Fever Vaccine
Diphtheria-Containing Vaccines



Flu Vaccine and Bell's Palsy

Bell's palsy is a common neurological disorder that accounts for up to 75% of all peripheral facial palsies. Although the etiology of Bell's palsy is not clear, one of the theories put forward involves an autoimmune etiology. Following the introduction of newly licensed intranasal influenza vaccine in Switzerland in October 2000, 46 cases of Bell's palsy were noted among people who received the vaccine. The situation warranted a thorough investigation to determine if there is any association between influenza vaccine and Bell's palsy in which VSD researchers are currently conducting a case-control study. As part of the study, researchers will identify people with Bell's palsy who are members of HMOs participating in the VSD project. At each participating site, medical records of persons with Bell's palsy will be reviewed to assess exposure to influenza vaccine, hepatitis B vaccine, Td vaccine, and other vaccines.

Final analyses calculating the relative risk of Bell's palsy following vaccination as well as the incidence of Bell's palsy among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations have been conducted. The manuscript for this study is currently under development.


MMR Vaccine and ITP

Idiopathic thrombocytopenia purpura (ITP) is an acquired disease that is caused by the destruction or impaired production of platelets. In children who are otherwise healthy, the acute onset of thrombocytopenia is commonly characterized as ITP. Over the last several years, there has been growing concern that the live virus MMR vaccination is associated with an increased incidence of ITP. Previous studies have demonstrated a significant risk of ITP following receipt of MMR vaccination, however they were based on small populations. To better quantify the relationship between MMR vaccination and ITP, VSD researchers are currently investigating the association in a large cohort of children. Researchers will use inpatient, outpatient, and laboratory data to identify children with a diagnosis of ITP during a specific period of time. Medical chart will then be reviewed to verify cases of ITP and collect information on vaccination history. Analyses will be performed to assess the risk of ITP following MMR vaccination.

Final analyses are currently being conducted for this study.

Finland finds link between pandemic vaccine and narcolepsy cases
www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/swineflu/news/feb0111narcolepsy.html

Lisa Schnirring Staff Writer

Feb 1, 2011 (CIDRAP News) – A preliminary report from Finnish health officials today said the link between narcolepsy in children and the Pandemrix 2009 H1N1 vaccine appears to be real, but more study is needed to explore the possible role of other factors.

The investigators from Finland's National Narcolepsy Task Force found a ninefold increase of narcolepsy in children and young adults ages 4 to 19 who received the vaccine compared with their unvaccinated peers, according to a press release from the country's National Institute for Health and Welfare. They said the effect was most pronounced in those ages 5 to 15. They didn't find a link in those under age 4 or over 19.

They based their findings on discharge data from patients who were hospitalized with narcolepsy during 2009 and 2010. They used primary care records to gather data on pandemic vaccination.

Narcolepsy was reported in 60 Finnish children and adolescents in 2009 and 2010. A panel of neurologists and sleep researchers reviewed their records. Of those with narcolepsy, 52 (nearly 90%) had received the Pandemrix vaccine. Vaccine coverage for the entire group was 70%.

Finland's vaccine adverse event registry received through Jan 24 of this year 56 reports of narcolepsy in those who received Pandemrix. All but two were in the 4-to-19 age-group. In most cases, narcolepsy symptoms started about 2 months after vaccination.

"The observed association is so evident that it is unlikely that other so-called confounding factors could fully explain the phenomenon," the group said in a press release.

Reports of a possible narcolepsy link to the Pandemrix vaccine in Finland and Sweden came to light in August 2010. The following month Swedish regulators issued a preliminary report finding no link between immunization and the condition.

Among other countries that used Pandemrix, increased numbers of narcolepsy cases were seen only in Finland, Sweden, and Iceland, the Finnish investigators noted. However, Iceland also found a greater-than-expected number of narcolepsy cases in unvaccinated children and teens.

Further investigations will explore infections or other factors that occurred in the children around the time they receive the pandemic vaccine. The group said they would explore a range of possible epidemiologic, immunologic, and genetic factors that could contribute to the development of narcolepsy. Specifically, studies will be conducted to detect if children with a genetic disposition to the condition or those who got sick varied in their response to different components of the Pandemrix vaccine.

The group said it would release its final report by Aug 31.

In August 2010 Europe's drug regulatory agency, the European Medicines Agency (EMA), launched its own review of the narcolepsy reports in Finnish children vaccinated with Pandemrix, which it expected would take several months to complete. In September a panel from the group said there was no need to restrict the vaccine's use and that benefit-risk balance continued to be positive.

GlaxoSmithKline, the maker of Pandemrix, said in a statement today that it is reviewing the task force report, but said it is premature to draw any conclusions about any possible link between the vaccine and narcolepsy until the EMA completes its investigation.

The company said it has been working closely with the EMA and other groups to better understand the reports.

More than 31 million doses of Pandemrix have been administered in 47 countries, Glaxo said. As of yesterday the company had received 162 reports of narcolepsy in people who have been vaccinated. Seventy percent were from Sweden and Finland.

The World Health Organization (WHO) said in a release today that it was aware of the preliminary report from Finnish health officials and agrees that further study is needed. It said its Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety is considering all available data on the increased narcolepsy reports and will issue a statement within the coming days.

"Recommendations for the use of seasonal 2010/2011 influenza vaccines in children and adolescents remain unchanged," the WHO added.

*wonders how many people will actually bother to read all of that*

April I'm sure that plenty of us would be willing to read a bit of info, but that is more than I have the inclination to read on a Sunday morning. Less is more.

Give us some proper balanced percentages; ie of 500,000 people vaccinated, 0.2% suffered serious side effects, such as x, y and z. Looking at a handful of people with a serious health issue and saying "90% of them had X vaccine" is better known as sensationalist cherry picking, because those are the sort of numbers that doom-mongering newspapers feed off - that and it is bad scientific research. You need to look at a vaccine programme as a whole, and that number in relation to how many people were vaccinated and came out with nothing more than an aching arm and a few days of cold/flu symptoms. If you can find me anything where a vaccine has had serious side effects in more than 5% of people vaccinated on a nationwide/global scale (not just in one city) then maybe I'll be less skeptical.

And be aware that I'm pretty sure that the root of my ITP was caused by having flu and a bacterial lung infection for 10 weeks in early 2007 (the gunk that came out of my chest was so bad that i felt compelled to put it in a pot and take it to my GP as proof that this was a bit more than just a cold). I was diagnosed as asthmatic, which explained how i'd ended up with flu which sent my immune system into meltdown. I've had the flu shot every year since which has led to a slight drop in my platelets each time, but has probably also saved my life, seeing as flu kills thousands of people every year, particularly people with something wrong with them.

I'd also suggest, if you can get your hands on a copy your side of the pond, reading 'Bad Science' by Dr Ben Goldacre.

aurehsalia wrote:

*wonders how many people will actually bother to read all of that*

Not many, I wager. But, it is there for those who demand I back up every single thing I say. I ALWAYS have a reference--ask and ye shall be given!

And, no, I'm not feeling much like giving you percentages on vaccination side effects right now. Come on, there are entire websites devoted to that, and of course we could all argue it until blue in the face! I would really encourage you do do some research--don't take mine or anyone elses's word for it (although there's plenty of brilliant minds that have already been there, so not necessary to invent the wheel.

But, my bottom line, as both a mum to 6 never-vaccinated children, as well as a health-care professional who's personally cared for both vaccinated and unvaccinated children, the unvaccinated are hands down, the healthier ones. But, if I have to hold one more young mother's hand, as she sobs over the sheer enormity of trying to care for her autistic child, after being told that "these things happen, but we're 100% sure it had nothing to do with the vaccines"--well, there must be a very special place in Hell :evil: for those who know better, yet refuse to do anything about it.

Just out of interest (not knowing how old your children are), when they're of an age where they can choose for themselves without requiring your signature on a consent form, what will you say if they make the decision to be vaccinated against something?

The most recent vaccination scheme in the UK is for teenage girls to protect against cervical cancer - it's optional for adults and I still need to get mine sorted out - my nan died 3 years ago and it was in her will on her list of wishes that money be set aside to pay for me to be vaccinated, as her mother (my great grandmother) died of cervical cancer.

Other vaccinations I've had as a teenager were for tuburculosis (which is on the rise again in the UK) and for meningitis C which I vividly remember doing the rounds when I was in college - one kid in the year above me was 17 at the time and had to have both feet and one hand amputated; a kid from my old school wasn't so lucky and died a few days after his 18th birthday - neither had been vaccinated. When it's brought home to you like that, it is terrifying.

I'm not pretending that all vaccines are 100% safe, but they are to protect against highly dangerous diseases - if there wasn't a genuine threat of them killing millions of people across the world, why else would they go to all the trouble of making them? The world of medicine doesn't have some sort of grudge against humanity and isn't hell bent on ruining the lives of people with side effects.

This great debate could go on forever. Personally, I am not a big vaccine fan. I think they are sometimes unnecessary, (i.e. varicella) and children are pounded with too many of them at the same time these days. However, I think this is a decision that every parent or patient must make for themselves; they will have to live with the consequences (as well as their children). There are happy-mediums and people can pick and choose the vaccines they feel are appropriate. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Bad things happen. Sometimes it doesn't matter which decision you make, there could be a negative consequence. Treating ITP, not treating ITP. Treating an ear infection, not treating an ear infection. Vaccinating, not vaccinating. Bottom line, every decision made by a parent or a patient has either a positive or negative outcome. Hindsight is 20/20. It's great to be informed and to have access to the knowledge, but there really isn't a right or wrong answer here.

The point I would like to stress right now is that there are people here who must vaccinate. Anyone who has had a splenectomy must have the required immunizations or the risk of a serious event rises dramatically. I think that these anti-vaccine missions may place excessive fear on a vulnerable individual, leading to a misguided decision. Every situation is different and to adopt an "always" or "never" philosophy could be detrimental. Let's keep this in mind, please.

Sandi,

There is merit to what you say. I also believe that the individual's situation must be taken into account, rather than a one-size-fit-all approach. Yet, rarely do I see that to be the case with vaccines. Despite the many contraindications given, I regularly see children who went to the doctor for an ear infection or the flu, or otherwise are not well, and as long as they're in there, the doctor decides to give them their latest shots. And, this is not just one shot, it's almost always 4-6 shots, some of which are vaccinating against multiple infectious diseases. And, this in a little being who has not had the chance to develop his/her immune system yet. I've very frequently seen children with severe seizure disorders given vaccines, despite being contraindicated. And then they're surprised when the already damaged CNS worsens!? These are not cases from some study--this is something I see in my own practice.

But, let's not confuse the issue here. You are talking about getting vaccinated if you have your spleen removed. Now that is a whole different topic for discussion, on many levels.

The original question here, that I was giving an opinion on was:

I have chronic ITP, which has never been a problem. I'm just wondering if the flu/swine shot I had in October could have been the reason my platelets fell over 5 weeks' time to a low of 2,000. Had the shot October 6th and started seeing the symptoms of ITP almost 2 weeks after that. I'm still trying to figure out what made them plummet.

There is not enough information to know for certain that the flu vaccine was responsible, but it's certainly a reasonable possibility.

I agree, this discussion has multiple issues. This section is for adults; the discussion and examples seem to lean toward children. I won't comment on whether or not a parent should vaccinate their child. That is up to them and really shouldn't even be part of this discussion, yet it was.