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GMO debate 5 years 8 months ago #54396

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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Okay, I need to explain myself and please know that I am writing this with the best of intentions. We are a family here and I have known some of you for many years. Those of you who have known me forever know that I research everything. Those of you who know me also know that I have changed my thinking lately as far as food and health, and yes, I know that it looks like I've become a health nut and my cheese slid off of my cracker. Maybe it did, but for good reason.

I was diagnosed with ITP at the age of 35. I was 100% traditional treatments, all the way. Prednisone and Rituxan were my treatment choices during the seven years that I battled low counts. Those treatments took a toll (long story, some of you know) and as a result, my health took a dive and I was diagnosed with Lupus at the age of 44. It's been 10 years now and at this point, I have so much damage from the medications that I do not have even a semi-normal life.

I did what the doctors asked. I have treated Lupus with constant steroids, CellCept, Imuran, Lyrica and Methotrexate, plus countless others that I can't even remember. None of them helped, and all have caused side effects and more damage to my body. It took high cholesterol and pre-diabetes to wake me up and realize that I have to take charge of my health. I have to, because the decline is steady. There is no doubt that diet change can help lower cholesterol and prevent diabetes. It might help other issues too. I owe it to myself to try, rather than just sit back and wait to treat those medically with more medications. So that is what I'm doing. I have researched food to death for nearly nine months now.

I saw a new Rheumatologist two weeks ago because my last one left. She is practically insisting that I take Imuran again. I adamantly told her no; I've done that and do not want to do it again. I asked her to please not change my meds now because things have been stressful since my sister died and I cannot handle any changes. She said okay, but said when I go back in a few months she will insist on it then. Again, I told her no because I'm trying to get off of meds, not add more. She did not respect my decision because she told the staff to give me an Imuran pamphlet on the way out (like I don't know anything about it already).

So my point of all of this is: I've gone the drug route for 18 years. I have only gotten worse and keep adding health issues to my list caused by the medications. I am done with drugs that have cancer risks and cause organ damage. Done. I don't have grandchildren yet, but at this rate if I ever do, I will not be able to babysit or pick them up. I can barely take care of myself right now and quality of life is compromised. I hear anecdotal stories from people that diet change changed their lives. Why would I not want to try that?

We discuss medications here. Some of them are pretty toxic. I don't think that can be disputed or denied. So we all kick around treatment options for people and give suggestions. Sure, try Rituxan. Yes, give Imuran a shot. Those drugs have some pretty serious side effects and can, undeniably, cause harm. And that's okay? It's okay to point people in the direction of harmful meds, and I agree that it's usually necessary. Years ago, everyone told me that Rituxan was okay. For me, it was not. It was my choice though and there is no blame. But if someone were harmed because of something I suggested, I'd feel horrible. That seems to be accepted here though. I realize that medication is necessary at times and should be used until some other method takes affect, and I don't discourage medication use. But I do encourage the least amount possible and only when necessary. Patients are over-treated far too often and there isn't enough respect for the dangers. I am always amazed by people who calmly reject treatment and prefer to watch and wait it out; when it is within reason, of course.

But if I tell someone that food can cause harm when someone is obviously interested in a serious diet change, that's a bad thing? I can say 'use Rituxan' but I cannot say 'rice has arsenic'? I think it's a little backwards. There is no harm in suggesting that someone not eat a certain food. No harm at all if someone decides to eliminate or cut back on rice. It may not help but it certainly won't hurt. Eating organic will not cause any harm either. No risk at all. But yes, steroids and immunosuppressants do have risks and we push that without hesitation.

EK, you know I love you, but do you see my point here? I have not directly brought diet up to anyone who hasn't mentioned it first. My default response is usually 'diet change will not help'. But when people truly want that change and seem dedicated, it's all or nothing. I'm not debating the actual controversial issues here, only my reasons for speaking out. I am not causing any harm by pointing these things out. I wish someone had encouraged less medication use when I was treating. Things were different back then though as far as ITP treatments. I used to laugh at the thought that diet could affect autoimmunity, but I wish I had listened because I believe it now and can't believe how ignorant I was. It might have changed the course of my life. I've been struggling constantly with my health now for 18 years straight.

I know this is long and I'm sorry for that, but this is my story. If anyone here feels that I am harming anyone by anything I've said about food, please feel free to complain. I notified the PDSA months ago that I wanted to resign and apparently, they are having problems replacing me (and I even recommended someone). The reason I wanted to resign was due to the intolerance of the things I've said and the evidence that I've provided. I felt it was credible and well-rounded for overall health and it's possible that in the long-run, it could truly help people. If it's offensive, then please do complain because honestly, I'd rather leave than chase any of you away. If people are leaving because of me, then I'm not doing a very good job. You belong here, I don't, and I value every single one of you. Your input is beneficial.

We can have an open discussion about this if anyone is willing. We're all adults.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54397

  • meredithjane
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Oh Sandi,
You really are struggling, you poor love. For all the support, knowledge, encouragement & care you have shown us here, it seems so unfair that you have so many unsolved issues.
Please try to buy or borrow a copy of 'Radical Remission' as I mentioned previously - I found it a huge help, even though my condition is autoimmune not cancer.
It's a tough time for you, but stay in control & aim for the physical, emotional & spiritual balance that can bring you peace.
love mj

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54399

  • TerriC14
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More power to you Sandi.

It is really funny how over the last several years I have also made the shift from the traditional route to lifestyle changes and natural treatment options and my experience is mostly with medications considered non toxic (as opposed to the types of medications traditionally used in ITP or autoimmune treatments). They basically all have side effects. I am not anti medicine by any means but I do thing careful consideration is needed for what you take especially if it is beyond a short term course. When my daughters counts first really dropped and the doctors suggested watchful waiting I was nervous and concerned but I became comfortable with it. Then when I first found the boards I was amazed at the wide variety of treatment protocols used including so much steroid use. I am really so grateful that her doctors reserved steroid for rescue and avoided it as maintenance.

The funny thing is that with as toxic as the meds are making the lifestyle changes seems harder to many people (honestly myself included). Food and eating is associated with pleasure, family happiness. And changing that especially dramatically seems overwhelming. But two people (young kids) I know who have made drastic dietary changes for health reasons have said that as hard as it was they feel so much better that even a little cheating was not worth it because they just don't feel well. And the more I am reading I am encouraging my daughter to consider these changes. At 19 she must make her own choices, however I have changed what we eat in the house. My husband and I are 3 days apart (basically your age). I am fortunate to not have underlying health issues. He is on about 3 HBP meds, high cholesterol, prediabetic, overweight, drinks too much, not enough exercise. So we made some dietary changes for him. He has lost about 65 lbs and much better bloodwork. The ironic part - my daughter's Promacta had been decreased and in the 12 days prior to her labwork forgot to take it 3 times. Yet her count doubled. Too soon for any correlation but I would have to wonder what impact the dietary changes made.

Advocate what you feel is worthy of consideration, people will either agree or decide that the change is not what they want to do. The pediatrician I work with and I discuss this all the time -with the rise of so many childhood issues (AHDH, autism spectrum, obesity, type 2 diabetes, etc) you have to consider the impact of food changes and preservatives - what you are putting in your body on a daily basis has to have an effect.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54400

  • eklein
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Sandi, what I was mainly trying to say was that when you present, as an example, 'spleen removal is no longer a favored early approach to resolving ITP' and 'GMOs are harmful' as EQUALLY accepted, state of the art, empirically supported advice, that undermines the credibility of your whole message to the many like myself who do not agree on the latter part of message.

One of the things I've liked about this board is how we include the 'mileage may vary' message and also indicate where there can be controversy. A few years back we were talking about spleen removal as controversial, and now we routinely include citations to the literature that shows the risks it presents.

I know your journey has been a tough one and continues to be tough.
Erica
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
4/22/08: 43K (2nd Rituxan)
10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54405

  • Aoi
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Sandi:
I'm still here. You'll have to do better than offer well-researched, thoughtful topics for discussion to scare me away.

As to whether your cheese slid off your cracker, I can't say. You're obviously dealing with a lot, going through a lot, and trying to find a better way forward. The people I know who have chronic conditions, myself included, seem over time to get more interested in management strategies, including diet/nutrition, exercise, and such, in no small part because of the cumulative effects of medication. Enduring the treatment can be as almost as difficult as living with the disorder, and the desire to try other approaches is natural and understandable.

So keep it coming. To riff on Nietzsche, I enjoy having my ideas challenged and learning more about what could help me improve.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54407

  • CindyAnn
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  • Diagnosed Jan 10, 2008. Rituxan treatment in May 2009. Treated with Prednisone off and on until 08/23/17 - 12.5mg Promacta as of 10/22/17
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Sandi,

I am at the 8 yr mark and I have changed the way I think as well - I think we all do in some respect. I have changed my diet due to finding out about food allergies and thou it has not helped the plt count - I do feel much better. After all "we are what we eat".

I enjoy the fact that many opinions can be brought up hear and we can discuss the pro's and con's of it.

Please know that I for one value you and your expertise, as well as your opinion!

Cindy Ann

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54413

  • Winnifred
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First off I'd like to send you a hug Sandi it sounds like you could use one!

Secondly I thought giving people options and information to make better choices is what this place was all about. So if you are doing that and people have a problem they should go not you! Most importantly if sharing info like you have done through the years is not welcomed anymore please let me know I will stop coming.

I am a big believer in do what works for you. Each of us are different so will be our treatments and how we handle them. I say if medications haven't worked than most definitely try the diet change. I'm the first person to say do not blindly follow your doctor so Good for you saying No to your doctor.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54418

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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I didn't write this at all expecting empathy; that's not what it was about. I had to include my story so my reasons would be clear. But thank you, anyway.

Meredith: I will look into that book. I have a pile that I need to read though so I have no idea when I'll get to it. Thanks for the tip.

Terri: It's nice to hear that a nurse incorporates natural methods of treatment into daily life. My daughter is in the medical field and almost finished with nursing school. She feels the same way. She has had Graves Disease for about 8 or 9 years and last August, developed Thyroid Eye Disease. It scared her so much that she decided to make a lifestyle diet change. The TED improved quickly after that. I just spoke to her the other day and she was saying that what she eats makes a huge difference. Every time she gets too busy to stick to the diet, within a few days, her eyelids begin to swell and her eyes get gritty. I said maybe it had more to do with stress and she insisted that it was the food she eats. I trust that she knows her body so I believe what she says. She said that she also feels much better sticking to the diet; can't argue with that. I'm glad it's working in your family as well. Keep me posted about your daughter's counts!

Erica: This post wasn't about me and I'm sorry if it came out that way. It was supposed to be about helping others. I understand that there are two types of people; those who stay away from GMO's pesticides, etc and those who do not. I used to think that roasted chicken and green beans were a healthy meal and now I don't. I think that organic free-range chicken and organic green beans are healthier. For me, there is a huge difference. If the individual in the post hadn't brought up diet change as a method that could help ITP, I wouldn't have mentioned it. But he did, so I assumed he was truly interested. I don't force that on anyone who isn't asking. If your point is that you would prefer all information given to be science based, that is fine, but there is conflicting information on the GMO topic. I have read scientific studies citing the harms of GMO's and you can counter that, I'm sure. But in my mind, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution? Help me to understand why defending GMO's is important to you. It's an honest question, not meant to be sarcastic.

Aoi: You hit the nail on the head there; "ideas challenged and learning more". That is exactly what I fell into with all of this. You start to research something and find that it takes you into so much more than you ever thought you'd find. I'm still on that quest and it's never-ending. You also learn that everything is not as it seems. Have you seen the Matrix? There is a red pill and a blue pill. I chose the red pill, see how deep the rabbit hole goes. I'd rather question than take anything at face value. I haven't stopped believing in traditional medicine, but I'm adding alternative methods as well.

Cindy Ann: I'm glad that you made changes and feel better as a result. That is exactly the reason to do it!

Julia: Thank you. I appreciate the opinion of another nurse!

Melinda: I didn't want to post in Newman's thread....there shouldn't be a tiff in a newbie's thread. I'm not anti-anything, it's just about making better choices. Again, he asked! I didn't tell the man not to eat GMO's, I merely made a suggestion that he will either accept or reject. Either way, it has not caused harm in any way.

Thank you all for the discussion. I appreciate the communication.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54424

  • CindyL
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Sandi, you can't go anywhere! We need you! I am glad that someone takes the time to research a lot of what gets posted here. You and everybody else who does that! I admit that I don't always understand what you guys post so I skip it, but the point is, we need people like you guys to do it! I don't have the patience to do all that work. As everyone says, what works for one may not work for another so we have to do what we feel is best for us. I don't find anyone pushes their ideas or opinions or says "you have to do this". There was one on here who I found did that, but she's gone now.

I'm like Aoi, I'm still here and I'm not going anywhere! I value everyone's opinions and thoughts. I check in here every day; it's part of my morning routine!

Speaking only for myself, I don't think this site would ever be the same without you. I would still check in, but it wouldn't be the same. Please stay! Maybe you guys could get someone to share the Admin duties. I know how hard you are struggling and I so wish I could do something to help you. Every time I read about another issue you're having, I worry about you. Please take care of yourself, but don't resign because you don't think you belong here.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54437

  • Melinda
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Sorry if you thought I was trying to start a tiff - I wasn't - was just letting you know the link you posted had nothing to do with arsenic in food/rice as alluded to but was about an arsenic medication.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54444

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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'Tiff' was the wrong word. I meant 'disagreement'. Sorry. I can't talk any more today. I was at the ER with my mom all day and just got home. She's fine. Tomorrow is another day.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54453

  • eklein
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To answer your question Sandi, for example here is another article about GMOs. A panel of scientists, not commercial interests, created the report. The findings indicate safety but uncertainty in the area of making a significant impact on food supply.

GMO has been around since we started breeding the gentler dogs to get gentler dogs, and the sweet corn to get sweeter corn. They have the potential to make huge improvements in crop sturdiness and world food supply and there is no support for negative health impacts. I do not believe there is any reason to avoid GMO foods for health reasons.


www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/business/genetically-engineered-crops-are-safe-analysis-finds.html?_r=0

Erica
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
4/22/08: 43K (2nd Rituxan)
10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54456

  • Aoi
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And here's a link to the site all about those results:
nas-sites.org/ge-crops/
The National Academies of Sciences (NAS) put it together, so it probably represents a good faith, best effort to assess what's known at present.

Sandi: Saw "The Matrix" when it came out. If you know the origins of that movie, then you know where "Aoi" comes from. The trick with the Matrix is knowing when you're in versus out, of course. Or as Richard Feynmann said: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." So having a group like this, where we all share and consider lots of information in a never-ending process of discovery and evaluation, is a good way to asymptotically approach an informed and accurate opinion. In other words, keep doing what you do.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54458

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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Aoi:

Gotcha. I was never one for science fiction, so The Matrix didn't interest me until recently when I kept reading references to the movie. That piqued my interest, so I bought the series and watched the first two. It's much more than just science fiction. There is a whole lesson there. You don't get it unless you get it.

Erica:

I read your article. I've also read hundreds like it. I know that GMO's are said to be safe, but I don't buy it. I think the risk is downplayed. First, they are a powerful, multi-billion dollar corporation. They lobby and there are serious conflicts of interest with the FDA which raise a huge red flag. Michael R. Taylor, just one of many, has held key positions with both the FDA and Monsanto. There are others....it's a revolving door between the two. Second, Monsanto's seed is cross-pollinating with farmer's seed and destroying their non-GMO crops. Monsanto then takes the farmers to court and sues them. The farmers cannot save the seed and use it the following year, because Monsanto claims it's theirs and makes them pay for it. They have also sued farmers for the profit from their crop yields. The farmers lose every time. Third, over 60 countries have banned GMO's because their studies have proven that they are not safe.

Not that Neil Young's opinion matters much, but here are lyrics from one of his recorded CD's:


"Monsanto Years"

You never know what the future holds in the shallow soil of Monsanto, Monsanto
The moon is full and the seeds are sown while the farmer toils for Monsanto, Monsanto
When these seeds rise they're ready for the pesticide
And Roundup comes and brings the poison tide of Monsanto, Monsanto

The farmer knows he's got to grow what he can sell, Monsanto, Monsanto
So he signs a deal for GMOs that makes life hell with Monsanto, Monsanto
Every year he buys the patented seeds
Poison-ready they're what the corporation needs, Monsanto

When you shop for your daily bread and walk the aisles of Safeway, Safeway
Find the package to catch your eye that makes you smile at Safeway, at Safeway
Choose a picture of an old red barn on a field of green
With the farmer and his wife and children to complete the scene at Safeway, at Safeway

Dreams of the past come flooding back to the farmer's mind, his mother and father
Family seeds they used to save were gifts from God, not Monsanto, Monsanto
Their own child grows ill near the poisoned crops
While they work on, they can't find an easy way to stop, Monsanto, Monsanto

Don't care now what the Bible said so long ago not Monsanto, Monsanto
Give us this day our daily bread and let us not go with Monsanto, Monsanto
The seeds of life are not what they once were
Mother Nature and God don't own them anymore



I don't want this to be too long, so I'll start another post.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54461

  • eklein
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If you are arguing that Monsanto has some evil corporate practices, I agree! I can see an argument for a boycott on that basis.
Erica
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
4/22/08: 43K (2nd Rituxan)
10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54462

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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Here are some actual studies. I think on an individual basis, it should be investigated instead of solely relying on the basic information that appears in the media.

To our knowledge, this is the first study to highlight the presence of pesticides-associated genetically modified foods in maternal,fetal and nonpregnant women’s blood. 3-MPPA and Cry1Ab toxin are clearly detectable and appear to cross the placenta to the fetus. Given the potential toxicity of these environmental pollutants and the fragility of the fetus, more studies are needed, particularly those using the placental transfer approach. Thus, our present results will provide baseline data for future studies exploring a new area of research relating to nutrition, toxicology and reproduction in women. Today, obstetric-gynecological disorders that are associated with environmental chemicals are not known. This may involve perinatal complications(i.e.abortion,pre-maturity, intrauterine growth restriction and preeclampsia) and
reproductive disorders (i.e. infertility, endometriosis and gynecological cancer). Thus, knowing the actual PAGMF concentrations in humans constitutes a cornerstone in the advancement of research in this area.

www.uclm.es/Actividades/repositorio/pdf/doc_3721_4666.pdf

Glyphosate is an active ingredient of the most widely used herbicide and it is believed to be less toxic than other pesticides. However, several recent studies showed its potential adverse health effects to humans as it may be an endocrine disruptor. This study focuses on the effects of pure glyphosate on estrogen receptors (ERs) mediated transcriptional activity and their expressions. Glyphosate exerted proliferative effects only in human hormone-dependent breast cancer, T47D cells, but not in hormone-independent breast cancer, MDA-MB231 cells, at 10⁻¹² to 10⁻⁶M in estrogen withdrawal condition. The proliferative concentrations of glyphosate that induced the activation of estrogen response element (ERE) transcription activity were 5-13 fold of control in T47D-KBluc cells and this activation was inhibited by an estrogen antagonist, ICI 182780, indicating that the estrogenic activity of glyphosate was mediated via ERs. Furthermore, glyphosate also altered both ERα and β expression. These results indicated that low and environmentally relevant concentrations of glyphosate possessed estrogenic activity. Glyphosate-based herbicides are widely used for soybean cultivation, and our results also found that there was an additive estrogenic effect between glyphosate and genistein, a phytoestrogen in soybeans. However, these additive effects of glyphosate contamination in soybeans need further animal study.

Glyphosate is routinely used on GMO crops, as they were specifically created to withstand this pesticide. Non-GMO crops cannot survive Glyphosate.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23756170

The broad spectrum herbicide glyphosate is widely used in agriculture worldwide. There has been ongoing controversy regarding the possible adverse effects of glyphosate on the environment and on human health. Reports of neural defects and craniofacial malformations from regions where glyphosate-based herbicides (GBH) are used led us to undertake an embryological approach to explore the effects of low doses of glyphosate in development. Xenopus laevis embryos were incubated with 1/5000 dilutions of a commercial GBH. The treated embryos were highly abnormal with marked alterations in cephalic and neural crest development and shortening of the anterior−posterior (A-P) axis. Alterations on neural crest markers were later correlated with deformities in the cranial cartilages at tadpole stages. Embryos injected with pure glyphosate showed very similar phenotypes. Moreover, GBH produced similar effects in chicken embryos, showing a gradual loss of rhombomere domains, reduction of the optic vesicles, and microcephaly. This suggests that glyphosate itself was responsible for the phenotypes observed, rather than a surfactant or other component of the commercial formulation. A reporter gene assay revealed that GBH treatment increased endogenous retinoic acid (RA) activity in Xenopus embryos and cotreatment with a RA antagonist rescued the teratogenic effects of the GBH. Therefore, we conclude that the phenotypes produced by GBH are mainly a consequence of the increase of endogenous retinoid activity. This is consistent with the decrease of Sonic hedgehog (Shh) signaling from the embryonic dorsal midline, with the inhibition of otx2 expression and with the disruption of cephalic neural crest development. The direct effect of glyphosate on early mechanisms of morphogenesis in vertebrate embryos opens concerns about the clinical findings from human offspring in populations exposed to GBH in agricultural fields.

pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx1001749

Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup®, is the most popular herbicide used worldwide. The industry asserts it is minimally toxic to humans, but here we argue otherwise. Residues are found in the main foods of the Western diet, comprised primarily of sugar, corn, soy and wheat. Glyphosate's inhibition of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes is an overlooked component of its toxicity to mammals. CYP enzymes play crucial roles in biology, one of which is to detoxify xenobiotics. Thus, glyphosate enhances the damaging effects of other food borne chemical residues and environmental toxins. Negative impact on the body is insidious and manifests slowly over time as inflammation damages cellular systems throughout the body. Here, we show how interference with CYP enzymes acts synergistically with disruption of the biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids by gut bacteria, as well as impairment in serum sulfate transport. Consequences are most of the diseases and conditions associated with a Western diet, which include gastrointestinal disorders, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, depression, autism, infertility, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease. We explain the documented effects of glyphosate and its ability to induce disease, and we show that glyphosate is the “textbook example” of exogenous semiotic entropy: the disruption of homeostasis by environmental toxins.

www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416

Glyphosate residue could reach humans and animals through
feed and excreted in urine. Presence of glyphosate in urine and its
accumulation in animal tissues is alarming even at low concentrations.
Unknown impacts of glyphosate on human and animal health warrants
further investigations of glyphosate residues in vertebrates and other
non-target organisms.

www.omicsonline.org/open-access/detection-of-glyphosate-residues-in-animals-and-humans-2161-0525.1000210.pdf

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691514002002

The risk assessment of genetically modified (GM) crops for human nutrition and health has not been systematic. Evaluations for each GM crop or trait have been conducted using different feeding periods, animal models, and parameters. The most common result is that GM and conventional sources induce similar nutritional performance and growth in animals. However, adverse microscopic and molecular effects of some GM foods in different organs or tissues have been reported. Diversity among the methods and results of the risk assessments reflects the complexity of the subject. While there are currently no standardized methods to evaluate the safety of GM foods, attempts towards harmonization are on the way. More scientific effort is necessary in order to build confidence in the evaluation and acceptance of GM foods.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19146501

Genetically modified foods such as soy and corn may be responsible for a number of gluten-related maladies including intestinal disorders now plaguing 18 million Americans, according to a new report released on Tuesday. The report was released by the Institute for Responsible Technology (IRT), and cites authoritative data from the US Department of Agriculture, US Environmental Protection Agency records, medical journal reviews as well as international research.

www.rt.com/usa/gmo-gluten-sensitivity-trigger-343/

The controversy about the health safety of GM foods is complex and good science and its communication are required in order to find solutions.The current guidelines for the safety assessment of GM foods have broad evaluation criterions but no detailed methodologies for testing
safety or thorough guidelines. In order to prove the safety of transgenic foods, it is necessary to exhaust the available possibilities, not discard the previous studies. The advantages of transgenic foods could provide solutions for many problems, but it is first necessary to prove that these foods will not cause other problems. Although numerous advancements can improve the reliability of GM food safety assessment, additional research in other important areas are needed
in order to develop new and more effective methods. Advances in molecular biology, toxicology, biochemistry, and nutrition hold the promise of providing sets of genes and methodologies that serve as biomarkers for a cell’s responses to toxins, allergens, or other compounds. They
will facilitate the development of new tools to facilitate the advancement and assessment of GM crops. The scientific priority is to contribute to the improvement of human and animal health or natural resource management without compromising public safety. More scientific effort and investigation is needed to ensure that consumption of GM foods is not likely to provoke any
form of health problem. The next step in GM crop safety assessment is to have regulatory agencies adopt the developments and recommendations that have been made by advisory committees convened by regulatory agencies and science organizations and put forth in scientific publications.

static.aboca.com/www.aboca.com/files/attach/news/risk_assessment_of_genetically_modified_crops_for_nutrition.pdf

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54463

  • Sandi
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If you are arguing that Monsanto has some evil corporate practices, I agree! I can see an argument for a boycott on that basis.
Erica


Agree! Evil is the right word.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54466

  • ananta
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Last month the European Parliament (MEP) leaders had their urine tested for Glyphosate.
"On average, the MEPs had 1.7 micrograms/litre of glyphosate in their urine, 17 times higher than the European drinking water norm (0.1 microgram/litre). This means that everyone tested was way above the limit for residues of pesticides in drinking water."

from: ecowatch.com/2016/05/12/mep-glyphosate-urine-test/

and
"The idea for this project is based on a similar study in Germany, made public by the Heinrich Böll Foundation. The study, “Urinale 2015”, was the largest survey worldwide on the contamination of the population with glyphosate, and was carried out throughout winter 2015/16 in Germany. With samples from over 2000 participants, the study found that the scale of the glyphosate problem is enormous, with detected concentrations in urine between five and 42 times over the maximum value of residues for drinking water in Europe. No less than 99.6% of all citizens who took part in this survey had higher residue levels. This means that virtually all citizens are contaminated with glyphosate. The values of children and younger age groups were double those of seniors. Consumers of organic food had an average measure of 0.9 micrograms/litre, almost as highly contaminated as consumers of conventional food, who had average results of 1.2 micrograms/l."

from: www.greens-efa.eu/we-are-pissed-off-15542.html

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54467

  • ananta
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And:
"Three Nebraska farmers and an agronomist, all diagnosed with cancer, have filed a lawsuit against Monsanto alleging the seed and chemical giant of purposely misleading the public about the dangers of the world’s most widely used herbicide."

from: journalstar.com/business/agriculture/farmers-sue-monsanto-over-alleged-roundup-cancer-link/article_1af7cee9-1c24-54f3-ac93-81112ea9b68c.html

another:
"HILO — A husband and wife who operated a South Kona coffee farm are suing Monsanto Co., alleging the agricultural biotechnology corporation purposely downplayed carcinogenic properties of glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup herbicide, and are responsible for the woman’s cancer."

from: westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-news/monsanto-sued-former-kona-coffee-farmers

One more:
"We can prove that Monsanto knew about the dangers of glyphosate," said Michael McDivitt, whose Colorado-based law firm is putting together cases for 50 individuals. "There are a lot of studies showing glyphosate causes these cancers."

from: www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-monsanto-lawsuits-idUSKCN0S92H720151015

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54468

  • eklein
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A lawsuit doesn't establish the science of whether an agent is carcinogenic.

Here's another article about glyphosate: academicsreview.org/2014/04/debunking-pseudo-science-lab-testing-health-risk-claims-about-glyphosate-roundup/

Erica
And she was!
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10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54471

  • Sandi
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I know that this is not considered to be a reputable cite, but this paragraph sums it up:

In 1992, the Food and Drug Administration claimed that they had no information showing that GM foods were substantially different from conventionally grown foods and therefore were safe to eat. But internal memos made public by a lawsuit reveal that their position was staged by political appointees under orders from the White House to promote GMOs. FDA scientists, on the other hand, warned that GMOs can create unpredictable, hard-to-detect side effects, including allergies, toxins, new diseases, and nutritional problems. They urged long term safety studies, but were ignored. The FDA does not require any safety evaluations for GMOs. Instead, biotech companies, who have been found guilty of hiding toxic effects of their chemical products, are now in charge of determining whether their GM foods are safe. (The FDA official in charge of creating this policy was Michael Taylor, Monsanto's former attorney and later their vice president.)

www.organicconsumers.org/news/spilling-beans-unintended-gmo-health-risks

I have found other articles to confirm all of that. That alone is enough to raise suspicion. GMOs are not hybrids. The DNA of GMO's are completely changed to be insect and pesticide resistant.

The primary reason companies genetically engineer plants is to make them tolerant to their brand of herbicide. The four major GM plants, soy, corn, canola, and cotton, are designed to survive an otherwise deadly dose of weed killer. These crops have much higher residues of toxic herbicides. About 68% of GM crops are herbicide tolerant.

The second GM trait is a built-in pesticide. A gene from the soil bacterium called Bt (for Bacillus thuringiensis) is inserted into corn and cotton DNA, where it secretes the insect-killing Bt-toxin in every cell. About 19% of GM crops produce their own pesticide. Another 13% produce a pesticide and are herbicide tolerant.


None of that sounds innocuous to me. It's not natural. Monsanto used to claim that saccharin was safe too. Henry Kissinger once said, "If you control the food supply, you control the people". We agree that they are evil, so follow the money.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54472

  • tamar
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I doubt that additional posts in this thread are going to make anyone change their mind about GMOs. If this is going to become the thread to continue to post additional internet content can we change the title to "the GMO debate" or something similar so people know what they're getting into?

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54484

  • Sandi
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Sure. Not a problem.

You mean to tell me that Neil Young's song wasn't enough to change minds? :whistle:

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54488

  • Winnifred
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Ok if were going to do the GMO debate. I must voice my opinion. I have no studies to back up what I say. I do not have a Phd in science. That said I do have lots of questions if anyone has an answer. First to clarify GMO stands for Genetically Modified Organism?

If so than can someone answer my next questions??

Why is everyone complaining about GMO's now?

Why were people not complaining when GMO foods first came out? When they started modifying foods by changing the colour or enhancing their flavour? Haven't seen anyone complain about the multi-coloured peppers and cauliflower? Or when they genetically modified plants so that they are small and easy to keep?

I know we all love our Beef steak tomatoes sliced on a BBQ hamburger. ( ok everyone but me)

No one complained in the early 1900's when they were genetically modifying dogs to make small lap dogs? ie: introducing rat genes. I believe it was all the rage for many years?

Why aren't people complaining about the fact that they genetically modified chickens so they lay eggs that can not be raise as chickens?? Not to mention what those modifications are doing to our genetic line because of eating them.



Ok now to hop off my soap box and run and hide!

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54490

  • ananta
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Winnifred,

GMO breeding is completely different than than changing the color of a pepper.

"What sets genetic engineering apart from all other types of crop improvements is that it involves transferring genetic material from one organism into the genetic material of a completely unrelated organism — DNA from bacteria into corn, for example. This doesn't happen in other plant-breeding techniques."

from: www.gardeners.com/how-to/genetic-engineering-traditional-plant-breeding/7926.html

Please read the whole article. It has a nice rundown of how farmers have used different methods to improve plants over the centuries.

As far as I understand, hens produce eggs every 24 hours or so. If they have not mated with a rooster, the eggs will be infertile. If you crack open an egg and see a line of blood, it has been fertilized.

Where did you hear that lap dogs came from rats? Here is a scientific study of where small dogs came from: news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/small-dogs-middle-east.htm

That is not GMO technology, it is evolution and "survival of the cutest"

It is a totally different thing to take to UNRELATED plants and animals and splice up the genes and insert little bits of DNA into embryos. Coming up with things that were never intended by nature.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54491

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Julia, I am agnostic on this topic, but Ananta is right: there is a huge difference between the selective breeding that you are referring to and GMO. Historically, interbreeding has only been possible within species, with very few and minor exceptions. But now, if I understand correctly, genes are being spliced from one species into another. So it would be like taking genes from a giraffe and splicing them into the genes for a pug and ending up with a very long-legged pug with a long neck and a smushed up pug face. I can fully understand the reaction of many people, that we are playing God by combining traits from different species through gene-splicing, and that we do not fully know what the unintended consequences might be.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54494

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You see them as two different entities. I see them as the same just two different methods to implementing change.

I will never say GMO foods are good or that what they are doing is right. I just believe this process started long before we found the "gene" and it was wrong from the start. Finding the genetic compounds just made it easier for them to go large scale and to change more of the plant.

It doesn't change the fact that they are changing the plants and our food. So to me they are both wrong and I wonder why it took people so long to say stop messing with the food!


This is just how I personally feel.

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Here's the thing....(EK) 5 years 8 months ago #54497

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Julia, I understand your point. You see GMO vs. selective breeding as a distinction without a difference. Either both are wrong or both are right.

For me there is a difference in degree. GMO is much more powerful, and as such it has the potential of doing much more harm. Like nuclear power, it can be used for good or bad, and only time will tell if it will be used responsibly.

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GMO debate 5 years 8 months ago #54498

  • Aoi
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People were complaining, writing about the unknown risks of interbreeding or using chemicals derived from one animals to alter function in another animal. Even writers like Edgar Allen Poe and Robert Heinlein got into writing about this stuff.

I wonder if a factor in the present GMO debate is simply that we are eating these foods as opposed to simply enjoying the company of a selectively bred pet. Another factor is that a lot more is known now about the long-term effects of food on health than even 25 years ago. Recall, for instance, the cartoons critical of using cowpox to vaccinate against smallpox that came out shortly after Queen Victoria was innoculated.

Last, bear in mind that these gene transfers in GMOs often cross kingdoms and even domains, which as Rob16 points out, is qualitatively very different from crossbreeding plants to make a tastier variety.

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GMO debate 5 years 8 months ago #54511

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I see a bigger issue in that human beings have had a history of not respecting and not appreciating the elegance of nature. The planet is a gorgeous, exquisite miracle. The natural order and forces are brilliant at balancing, correcting and healing itself. but come on! poor thing, no matter how powerful the planet is it can't handle the onslaught of human beings, esp modern humans.

First there are way too many of us- overpopulation is a huge problem. but I think we could manage if we as a species were not in a kind of resistance to nature. The need to dominate and control rather than accept and appreciate nature is a big problem. hey I'm no better- I mean the temp gets above 80 and I am the first to turn on the air conditioner!

And I see how our bodies are a natural phenomenon- like the oceans or wetlands they are this elegant highly complex ecosystem that is constantly balancing and healing. The body even has seasons- youth- spring, summer, middle age- autumn, and old age the body turns grey white like winter. But very often humans are in a kind of resistance to their bodies- like nothing is ever right. And we are hell bent to override the body in so many ways from aging to eating drinking, to over-working, not sleeping. And again, I'm 40-50lbs overweight so hey, I get how this over- riding the body's messages happens!

Regarding GMOs, my personal take on it- I don't feel the need to read a lot scientific reports to form my opinions. Even if they are not finding evidence that GMOs are harming people, just common sense tells me that the thinking behind the development of these foods is not right. Not a good idea.

Sandi you are and have been an awesome moderator! omg I have gotten so much from what you've brought to the table. My spleen thanks you too! And absolutely- many doctors are over-treating ITP. I am glad to hear of your experience with Rituxan. We hear of people getting 8 doses- the more is better thinking. crazy So wonderful that you, Rob and others stand up for proper dosing! There was a 72 yr woman who died last year- very sad. Her daughter was posting. She had so many treatments thrown at her- Rituxin, splenectomy TPOs and steroids didn't work, cyclosporine? not sure all that was dumped in her system. She in the hospital for a month I believe, and died of pnuemonia. Just terrible, but really underscores how dangerous it can be to over-treat. And how important it is to educate ITPers and doctors, everyone. Thanks so much so all you've contributed and please stay with us as moderator if you can!~ take care all
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