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TOPIC: Salt and Autoimmunity

Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47021

  • Sandi
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Refined, processed and bleached salts are the problem. Salt is critical to our health and is the most readily available nonmetallic mineral in the world. Our bodies are not designed to processed refined sodium chloride since it has no nutritional value. However, when a salt is filled with dozens of minerals such as in rose-coloured crystals of Himalayan rock salt or the grey texture of Celtic salt, our bodies benefit tremendously for their incorporation into our diet.

“These mineral salts are identical to the elements of which our bodies have been built and were originally found in the primal ocean from where life originated,” argues Dr Barbara Hendel, researcher and co-author of Water & Salt, The Essence of Life. “We have salty tears and salty perspiration. The chemical and mineral composition of our blood and body fluids are similar to sea water. From the beginning of life, as unborn babies, we are encased in a sack of salty fluid.”

earthweareone.com/scientists-officially-link-processed-foods-to-autoimmune-disease/

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47034

  • eklein
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Did she start selling the salt before she discovered its amazing properties or did she make the discovery first and then invest in selling it?
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
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10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47035

  • Sandi
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I have no idea, but I've read this before. Same goes for sugar, but there's no way to avoid all of it.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47036

  • Melinda
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Everyone needs to just stay in bed - do not get out it is extremely dangerous to your health. Shut your door - pull the blinds and drapes [you know sun can cause skin cancer] - stay in bed [you might fall if you get out and cause a brain bleed or broken hip] - if you have stairs never go down them because you could fall down and break your crown - get rid of the refrigerator because anything you put in it will slowly kill you - do not go outside because the air is polluted - the pantry, almost forgot the pantry, nail the door shut so that you are not tempted to call your neighbor to go shopping for you while you are staying in the safety of your home - wonder what the fabric of our clothes does to the body, maybe it is releasing some sort of toxins that are entering through the pores of our skin.

I'm sorry - but I'm just shaking my head. All these warnings and cautions and oh my you aren't eating or living the way the cave man did so that's the cause of all our problems is getting to be too much.

However I do have a Himalayan salt crystal tea light holder - it lets off the most beautiful glow when the candle is lit, and supposedly it lets off healing stuff into the air. Not going to grate it over my popcorn though. Oh - did see some funky salts at the grocery stores specialty cheese counter, but no special sign saying they would reduce all my problems.

And now I'm going to take a nap because I miss the hour of sleep DST took from me. Hope I do not get my finger caught in the recliner's handle when I stretch out - maybe I need to get rid of it since it could/may cause a health problem.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47066

  • Sandi
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Okay, point taken. At this point, I'd try anything to try and get some of my life back. You're right though, I'm not like the rest of the people here so my situation is much different. I should discuss this stuff somewhere else. :)

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47069

  • Melinda
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I personally do not believe that salt is the at the root of all my autoimmune problems. There are just some things we need to let go - everyone I know uses plain old normal salt with iodine, I am the only friend or family member who has autoimmune problems[and I have a heck of a lot of 1st cousins]. If it was Morton's Salt that was causing problems don't you think more of my friends and family members would be having problems too. I like to drink out of a straw, but I have given up grabbing at them.

You talk here all you want about what you want - I probably over-stepped my boundaries, but there are just some things that we need to worry about and some things we don't. I was expressing that I am not going to worry about Morton's Salt - especially since no one in my family ever used Celtic Sea Salt or Himalayan rock salt in their lives and they were fine, then me the rotten apple shows up, why am I the one? It is a mystery of life and I'm stuck with it and eating another salt will not heal me, might make my bp go up though ;)

I did lick that Himalayan salt tea light holder, the Missourian in me came out - yep, it is salty, very salty & didn't taste good.

Sandi I love you and you know that - the thing is I think you are grabbing at a lot of straws and that isn't you (there I go, giving my opinion again). Now if you go drinking what that one lady said she drank and her ITP was cured then I really am going to worry about you.

(and I know this just isn't about ITP)

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47072

  • Sandi
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Melinda:

I've just been having a hard time lately. It happens. I come here day after day cheering people on and I love doing that, but sometimes I just need a little help. You know it's hard for me to admit that and I never do. I'll get past it and I have a therapist for that, so no more on the PDSA. I usually do just fine in my shell. I guess I went off the deep end. It won't happen again and common sense will once again prevail. I'll do wacky somewhere else.

Before I let this drop though, I do want to say that iodized salt can exacerbate certain conditions, especially thyroid disorders. Keep in mind, this is for predisposed individuals. This is not wacky, there is truth to this and you can take it or leave it. I discovered this years ago when researching after Holli was diagnosed. She only buys non-iodized salt at home; I'm sure she get enough iodine when she eats out or eats with friends. Soy is another thing that triggers or exacerbates thyroid disorders.

Administration or ingestion of excess dietary iodine (exceeding 150 mcg daily) found in processed foods, iodized salt, contrast dyes for imaging tests, salty foods, medications such as amiodarone, dietary supplements including thyroid and metabolic boosters, and contaminated meat can result in thyrotoxicosis especially in patients with multinodular goiter, latent Graves’ disease, and adenomas.

In addition, excessive iodine can trigger Graves’ disease and other autoimmune thyroid disorders in genetically predisposed individuals who have not yet developed a thyroid disorder and cause relapses in individuals who have achieved remission.

Latent Graves' disease is a term used to describe Graves' disease that's in remission from antithyroid drug therapy or alternative medicine. Latent Graves' disease also refers to mild conditions that may not have yet been diagnosed.

Excess iodine can cause hypothyroidism in certain patients. Patients with a history of Graves’ disease treated with radioiodine or partial thyroidectomy, partial thyroidectomy for thyroid nodules, or autoimmune thyroiditis appear to be particularly predisposed to iodine-induced hypothyroidism. Even relatively small excessive doses of 750 mcg may be sufficient to induce hypothyroidism in these individuals.


www.elaine-moore.com/Blog/tabid/60/Post/453/Iodine-and-Graves-Remission

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47073

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Sandi....you can do wacky here! We have all done wacky here.

Could you lob some over the plate, though, for those of us who are a little slow? I don't know what to say about salt...other than there's a lot of it in processed foods, so stick to the outside of aisle of the supermarket (except for the PopTart aisle).

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47075

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Sandi, this might interest you:

Thyroid. 2007 Nov;17(11):1137-42.
Thyroid disease in patients with idiopathic thrombocytopenia: a cohort study.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17887931
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To estimate the prevalence of the association between thyroid disease and idiopathic thrombocytopenia (ITP), and to examine the effect of treatment of the thyroid condition on platelet count.
DESIGN:
Retrospective cohort study performed in a tertiary care center setting. All patients who were diagnosed with ITP by a single provider at the Cleveland Clinic Hematology/Oncology Department between 1988 and 2005 were included.
MAIN OUTCOME:
Among the 98 patients, thyroid function tests were available in 80 patients. Of these, 16 (20%) had abnormal thyroid function: 6 had hyperthyroidism and 10 had hypothyroidism. The median interval from the onset of the thyroid or hematological condition (whichever came first) was 84 months (range: 25-612). The autoimmune nature of the thyroid disease was proven in 12 cases (75%). Three patients showed a transient increase in the platelet count after restoring the euthyroid state; however, durable improvement of thrombocytopenia was not encountered.
CONCLUSIONS:
The prevalence of hypothyroidism in patients with ITP is higher than in the general population. Based on this observation, routine assessment of thyroid function should be done in patients with ITP. The long-term course of ITP was not influenced by the treatment of the thyroid condition.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47078

  • Sandi
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I was aware of that, Rob. I once read a book about Graves and it listed the most common autoimmune disorders that can go along with it. ITP was one of them.

There are a few people here with both thyroid disorders and ITP, but I haven't seen that the ITP improved when the thyroid levels became normal, although I'm sure it happens in some cases. Most of the time, the thyroid disorder came first and already was under control when ITP was diagnosed.

The International Consensus suggests testing newly diagnosed patients for thyroid disease. I'm not sure how often that is done.

Eight percent to 14% of ITP patients followed longitudinally developed clinical hyperthyroidism. Others developed antibodies to thyroglobulin and may eventually develop hyper- or hypothyroidism. Mild thrombocytopenia has been reported in patients with hyperthyroidism (reduced platelet survival) and hypothyroidism (possible decreased platelet production), which often resolve with restoration of the euthyroid state. It may also be useful to measure antibodies to thyroglobulin and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) to identify patients at risk for clinical thyroid disease.

www.bloodjournal.org/content/115/2/168.full

Thanks, Tamar. I am a believer that certain foods do affect certain medical issues depending on which one a person has. I've experienced it myself and so has Erica, so I don't believe it to be far-fetched or grasping at straws. I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone and every condition, but there are certain facts known about food such as some promote inflammation and some are anti-inflammatory, etc. There is so much info out there about refined sugar and salt and the damage it can cause to the body. For years I believed that medications were the only way to go to manage medical issues and it might be too late for me now, but diet can make a huge difference in health. What does anyone have to lose by trying it?

Disclaimer: I am not implying that Erica agrees with my beliefs....her experience with food has nothing to so with salt or sugar and is a completely different diet.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47079

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Sandi,

I hope you won't be afraid to do wacky here. Most of us, at one point or another, have been talked into a more sane perspective about some aspect of treatment. In other words, we all do wacky from time to time, and this is a safe place for us to get a gentle reality check when needed, or affirmation when we are right; and by "us" I hope that includes you. We are all friends here!

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47080

  • Rob16
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Sandi,

You have given two sources for your salt and autoimmunity topic. When one gets too far from primary sources, things can get a little distorted, so I traced the sources back as far as I could, and what I found was interesting.

The article on Himalayan sea salt, etc., referenced an article that had nothing to do with the source of the salt, but was very much concerned with the excessive quantity of the salt in our diets and its effect on immune systems.

www.nature.com/nature/journal/v496/n7446/full/nature11868.html
Sodium chloride drives autoimmune disease by the induction of pathogenic TH17 cells
There has been a marked increase in the incidence of autoimmune diseases in the past half-century. Although the underlying genetic basis of this class of diseases has recently been elucidated, implicating predominantly immune-response genes, changes in environmental factors must ultimately be driving this increase. The newly identified population of interleukin (IL)-17-producing CD4+ helper T cells (TH17 cells) has a pivotal role in autoimmune diseases. Pathogenic IL-23-dependent TH17 cells have been shown to be critical for the development of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE), an animal model for multiple sclerosis, and genetic risk factors associated with multiple sclerosis are related to the IL-23–TH17 pathway. However, little is known about the environmental factors that directly influence TH17 cells. Here we show that increased salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) concentrations found locally under physiological conditions in vivo markedly boost the induction of murine and human TH17 cells. High-salt conditions activate the p38/MAPK pathway involving nuclear factor of activated T cells 5 (NFAT5; also called TONEBP) and serum/glucocorticoid-regulated kinase 1 (SGK1) during cytokine-induced TH17 polarization. Gene silencing or chemical inhibition of p38/MAPK, NFAT5 or SGK1 abrogates the high-salt-induced TH17 cell development. The TH17 cells generated under high-salt conditions display a highly pathogenic and stable phenotype characterized by the upregulation of the pro-inflammatory cytokines GM-CSF, TNF-α and IL-2. Moreover, mice fed with a high-salt diet develop a more severe form of EAE, in line with augmented central nervous system infiltrating and peripherally induced antigen-specific TH17 cells. Thus, increased dietary salt intake might represent an environmental risk factor for the development of autoimmune diseases through the induction of pathogenic TH17 cells.

This was especially interesting in light of this article I found:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2738732/
Elevated profile of Th17, Th1 and Tc1 cells in patients with immune thrombocytopenic purpura
In summary, our study demonstrates Th17 may be an important determinant in the evolution of ITP along with Th1 and Tc1, suggesting that blocking the abnormality of Th17 cells is likely to be a promising therapeutic concept for ITP.


The article on iodine was traced back to this secondary source which was extensively footnoted:

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/chapter/thyrotoxicosis-of-other-etiologies/#toc-iodine-induced-hyperthyroidism [/b]

In short, the author states that excessive iodine can cause excessive thyroid levels in certain individuals who are predisposed by an existing thyroid defect. (In most of the population, there is a very high tolerance for excessive iodine)
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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47084

  • Sandi
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Thanks for finding those. You know me, I usually insist on credibility and hate wiki and other non-credible sources, but I did get lax with this one. I was in a hurry and thought 'what the heck' and posted it anyway. I've read other articles in the past about it and will have to try to dig them up.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47085

  • Sandi
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BTW, I try to keep my personal medical issues to myself for the most part, but I guess I got to a breaking point. I am frustrated with the situation and have been looking for other options. I won't go as far as homeopathy or anything like that, but there has to be some kind of simple alternative.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47086

  • Sandi
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These are better.

The incidence of certain autoimmune diseases in our society, including multiple sclerosis and type 1 diabetes, has been rising over recent decades. This research suggests that one factor may be that we now eat more processed foods with high levels of salt.

www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2013/03182013autoimmune.htm

But could salt change the course of autoimmune disease? Both Kuchroo and Hafler found that in a mouse model of multiple sclerosis, a high-salt diet accelerated the disease’s progression.

All this evidence, Kuchroo says, “is building a very interesting hypothesis [that] salt may be one of the environmental triggers of autoimmunity”.


www.scientificamerican.com/article/salt-linked-to-autoimmune-diseases/

For the past few decades, health officials have been reporting increases in the incidence of autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis (MS). Now researchers at Yale Medical School, Harvard Medical School and the Broad Institute have identified a prime suspect in the mystery — dietary salt.

news.yale.edu/2013/03/06/yale-researchers-identify-salt-trigger-autoimmune-diseases

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47089

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I agree, those links are from more reputable sites. And related to MS, to boot, so I'm interested. Maybe I can blame all that bologna and potato chips that I had as a kid for my MS. The good news now is my husband has to watch his blood pressure, so I stay away from anything that has a high sodium level when I do the grocery shopping.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47097

  • eklein
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I love how you've tracked this down thank you Sandi Tamar and Rob. Erica
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
4/22/08: 43K (2nd Rituxan)
10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47098

  • Sandi
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From rags to riches. ;)

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47109

  • Melinda
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Have stayed away from high sodium for 30 odd years - still got ITP, Graves, PN and more. I do not add salt when I cook, I will however put a little on my own eggs and baked potatoes. My sisters had the same diet as I did growing up, my parents ate the same thing [except my Mom who loved liver, none of us but her ate it] - none of them had even 1 autoimmune disorder, just me.

Hard to believe salt has caused all my problems.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47150

  • Sandi
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Melinda:

I'm not saying that salt caused all of your problems. I'm not saying that salt caused all of my problems. What I am saying is that all of the processed foods that we eat could be contributing to a rise in autoimmune disorders in predisposed individuals. It's fairly well known that people with a predisposition need triggers in order to 'set off' a particular disorder. Triggers can be one thing or a long accumulation of factors. If it has been determined that salt causes changes in T cells, it could be the straw that broke the camel's back for some individuals.

Autoimmune disorders are complicated as I'm sure you know. There are many theories and oxidative stress is one of them. Salt, as well as many other factors, have been shown to create oxidative stress. It's not just what you use from the salt shaker, it's canned soup, hot dogs, Big Mac's, lunch meat, frozen foods...the list is endless. In the past 20 to 25 years, processed foods have become a staple in most homes. Some people have been unlucky enough to be affected by whatever triggered their autoimmune disorder. Salt is only one possibility.

I never really put much stock in food as a culprit, but the more I read, the more I believe that it can be a factor. People can choose to believe it or not, people can choose to make dietary changes or they may not. I just put it out there so people can be aware of it and make a change if they choose. We're always questioning 'why' this happens, well, I'm giving reasons as odd as they may seem.
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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47192

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I'd like to thank you all. I find this reasonably convincing. I have high blood pressure and try to avoid salt, but I've gotten sloppy over the past few months. This has convinced me to start watching what I eat again.

It's really difficult to avoid salt, unless you avoid all processed foods. And it's really easy to backslide after eating out at restaurant or buying some convenience foods, like canned soups or frozen foods.

Now to convince the rest of my family to follow my lead.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47198

  • Sandi
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It is hard! We like chicken stir fry and I make it often (today, in fact). You think it's healthy because of the chicken, broccoli, rice, etc....., but the stir fry mix is what gets you. Oh, and the rice. Since the arsenic warning came out, I rinse the rice pretty good before cooking it. But no, this is not a healthy meal.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47214

  • Ann
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Seems to me that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!!

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47241

  • Sandi
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I'm going to pretend I didn't just read that. :whistle:

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47248

  • Melinda
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Sandi use your own spices for the stir fry - that's what I do. Penzeys Spice is one of my favorite stores, was so glad when they opened nearby! They have a lot of good spice mixes without sodium in them.

When we lived in Tokyo we were told to wash the rice until the water ran clean, and that meant taking hands full and rubbing it together under running water to get the talc off. I much prefer sticky rice to regular rice.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47289

  • EmilyK
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Sandi
Good to know you are human!! Emotional ups and downs are normal. I think you told me that. Looking for solutions is what we all do. This is the perfect place to be wacky.
Many hugs
Diagnosed Jan 2015 at age 50 with 13,000.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47302

  • Sandi
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Melinda, I'll have to look that up. I may do that. However, even though I posted this and believe it, it doesn't mean I'm willing to give it all up yet.

Emily, I changed my mind. I don't believe it's so wacky after all. :)

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47307

  • eklein
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Sandi, like Melinda said about the spices. Also if you use just a little bit of sesame oil, it gives a magic flavor of Chinese food, it was like discovering a secret ingredient. I also buy shredded ginger in water in jars at Asian grocery stores, way easier than fresh and has great flavor. Erica
And she was!
Diagnosed May 2005, lowest count 8K.
4/22/08: 43K (2nd Rituxan)
10/01/09: 246K, 1/8/10: 111K, 5/21/10: 233K
Latest count: 7/27/2015: 194K

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47311

  • Sandi
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Good idea. I've never been into spices much (other than blackening seasoning and basil, etc), but I should give them a shot.

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Salt and Autoimmunity 4 years 11 months ago #47328

  • Melinda
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Sandi go to penzeys.com and check out the spices - also sign up to receive the catalog at home, lots of times on the catalog there is a coupon for something free [probably can get whatever it is free on a mail or email order]. Mural of Flavor is good, I like Northwoods Fire but it does have coarse flake salt in it. Their cinnamons are good. I just love going into their store and looking at the spices and I don't even like to cook.

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