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Reply to 98,000!!! 9 years 8 months ago #31709

  • april
  • april's Avatar Topic Author
Looks like I was too late to reply before this thread got ugly, then locked. But, because I was basically drug through the mud, tried and convicted, I need to say my piece.

Obviously, Tamar’s prediction came true before I got a chance to clear some things up. I was attending a vaccine informational talk by Barbara Loe Fisher tonight—excellent talk, btw!

I don’t normally discuss a patient’s case on here, but since the parent and others already are discussing it openly, and without all the facts, I’d like to clarify a few things to calm the hysteria. I agree, the way it is written may at first sound alarming,

“Nose bleed would not stop. She puked blood and chunks everywhere 3 times in the last 24 hours. She looked very bad. Very pail (sic)”

Long lasting nosebleeds have been a frequent, previous symptom for the child. Seeing the blood scares her—she does not want to look at it! So, she pinches her nose very tightly or puts a very tight clip on it, so it doesn’t run out her nose. Her dad tapes her nose shut at night, so she breathes through her mouth, and to stop the bleeding. Blood doesn’t magically disappear—it runs down the throat, she swallows much of it, resulting in periodically puking it up. (She is not bleeding from her GI tract.) Mother says she can’t really tell how much blood she’s lost, as most of the time the child pinches it so tight, none is coming out. The few times she has seen any this round, it appears to be much thicker and clotting than previous times when it was very thin. Mother believes this is due to her counts being higher. As I am a very experienced nosebleeder, if it was a profuse amount of blood like I used to get, there's no way she could keep it from coming out her nose, no matter how tighty she pinched it.

Mother states she is very thirsty and is drinking a lot, and urinating normally. I recommended Pedialyte or other electrolyte drink. Recommended certain biochemic cell salts (like mineral salts) to help restore electrolyte balance and blood loss. Mom said she had an appetite and was asking for food, but dad was scared to give her anything too acidic. I recommended they feed her what she asked for (she was wanting soup). It looks like dad fed her tuna fish and sweet potato—all good. Her mom does not describe any signs of her being dehydrated at this point. (She is a young girl—not an infant.)

Yes, she is pale. Yes, she is dizzy, tired and low energy. Most of us would be that way if we hadn’t slept all night. I get that way when I’ve been up all night attending a birth, or attending to a sick child. Lack of sleep will do that to you. This child tends towards the melodramatic side, and the bleeding has scared her in the past, so she is a little excitable. Lack of sleep makes it even harder to deal with it all. It’s also really hard to sleep when you have blood running down your throat. Speaking as someone who used to get 1-2 hour profuse nosebleeds (I did not have ITP, but had nasal polyps), I know how if you disturb the clot by blowing too hard or even rubbing the nose can break it open again and keep a nosebleed going a long time. I suspect this is what is happening with her, as she is pinching it so tight, and keeps messing with her nose. But, difficult to get a child to understand this. As an adult, I knew better, but would still do it accidentally all the time. Plus, you REALLY want to blow that clot out, because it’s annoying and feels weird.

For the record, I advised they take her in to get her counts done today. Her mother didn’t really want to, fearing going out in the cold weather might start the nosebleed again. Plus, they were all exhausted. I don’t necessarily think her counts have plummeted back to zero again, but it’s good to know, one way or the other. Just like Julianne’s mom has shared above, I have seen many times when parents thought a child’s counts had dropped terribly low, because of increased symptoms, just to find out that they had some of their highest counts ever. I’ve also read similar accounts on this site over the years. It’s an interesting phenomena, and I don’t know why it is sometimes like that. It does not seem to be specific to homeopathy, but rather a common way that the body heals, no matter the mode of healing.

Sandi, you said, “This has gone too far and amounts to playing with fire. Enough.”
This child has been at 0-5k for two years. Very shortly after starting homeopathic treatment, her counts went to 98k. She’s had nosebleeds before and she had a long one last night. The child is under the care of a local GP and was under a hematologist. The parents are both very conscientious and would take her in if they felt she was endangered. Fyi, the hematologist has basically ‘fired’ these parents as they did not choose to go the route of splenectomy or 6mp or other potentially harmful treatments, and said there is no point in them coming back if they refuse to treat. This was well before they ever spoke with me or knew anything about homeopathy. As it should be, this was their right and their choice, to choose to treat or not to treat their child. It was also an informed choice, and not some knee jerk reaction. Before they were doing “watch and wait”, which many, many parents and doctors are now recommending and choosing. Now, they chose to try homeopathy, and horror of horrors, her counts have gone up to 98k! (Must be some of that magical fairy dust I sprinkled in her remedy.) I really fail to see how this has “gone too far!”

Her counts may have fallen, if you look only at the physical symptoms. But, they may not have, either—without a blood draw, it’s all speculation. Counts can change rapidly in the early stages of healing. Sometimes there can be a ‘return of old symptoms’, sort of a “last hurrah” as the body clears out that disease pattern once and for all. This is often the “it gets worse before it gets better” stage. I suspect this is what is happening, as usually this can seem quite intense, often as bad as it’s been at its worst, and none of the usual things that act to stop it will work. Then just as suddenly, it will be over, and there will be tremendous improvement. I doubt that most parents would be comfortable with not treating at the low counts she’s had for two years. But, their GP continues to monitor her, and the parents have managed to keep her safe all this time, without resorting to harsh treatments. I suspect they will be able to make it through this weekend. No need to panic.

Quote from alicein:
Sandy, you are presuming that this person's practitioner is stupid.

Quote from Erica:
Wow, I was assuming this person's practitioner was endangering a child through
ignorance and magical beliefs, but I'm willing to go with your terminology.

Wow! is right…so, Erica, you’re openly calling me “stupid, ignorant and endangering the child with my magical beliefs”…nice!!
You know, in my magical homeopathy world we have a saying: “The only person out there is yourself. Whenever a person talks about someone else (or something else), they’re really talking about themselves.”
I have found this to be very true.

Crystal, in regards to your son, "Everytime I look at my son he looking worse I have not seen him this bad in a long time :( ", I am interpreting this to mean that he is getting bruising and petechiae again, and maybe his color or skin tone is off. For another child who has sat in the single digits for most of his ITP journey, this might suggest a drop in counts, but I see no indications for alarm or a rush to the ER. He was there for a long, ong time with no treatment. Because what you wrote is rather cryptic, I have no idea if something more is going on or not, that would warrant concern. Just like the other parent, Crystal has a doctor who sees her child regularly, and whom she loves. Pretty sure she'll take him in if she's concerned. As she has not done any follow up with me in some time, I am not currently advising her, so I am not being irresponsible or endangering her son in any way. Parents have the freedom to choose who they want to be monitoring their child.

Crystal, if you want, I would suggest contacting me about your concerns, rather than asking about it on here or on Facebook. More than likely there is a simple solution, like needing another dose, or perhaps a different potency or another remedy entirely. When symptoms return, it's usually time for another dose. Regular follow up and contact are important--it needn't be lengthy, though. It is expected that the energy of the remedy will be exhausted eventually, and another dose will be needed. In the beginning, more frequent repetition will be needed. Gradually, the intervals will get further and further apart. My daughter still takes her constitutional remedy every 2 or 3 months, as needed. Some people only need it once or twice a year. In case of a flu, a childhood illness, stomach bug or an accident, he may need a different remedy temporarily to deal with that. Afterwards, the constitutional remedy usually needs to be repeated again.

We are dynamic beings, always changing. Our bodies are constantly striving for homeostasis. There is no single, magic pill or treatment that will cure or prevent every illness or pain for the rest of your life. We will always be working on our health until the day we die. So, no need to be discouraged, or always waiting for the other shoe to drop, or feeling like there's no possible way that this can ever be over or cured. There may be ups and downs, but the important thing is, you want him to have the ability to come back into balance quickly. When a baby falls, he doesn't just lay there and think, "Oh, I've fallen-now I'll never get up and walk again, so I'll just have to lay here or crawl forever!" No, he gets up, and he walks a little, then he stumbles. He'll take a tumble or two or three...eventually he gains his balance and he hrdly ever falls. Your son's immune system is the same way. It was profoundly damaged from the vaccines (even according to your doctor). As the body works on healing one thing, something else may not get the same attention, thus the ups and downs we sometimes see in counts.

Also, not everyone has those ups and downs. My daughter never did. We continued with weekly blood counts for a few months, and then went to biweekly, and then monthly, for 6 months. She never dropped at all during that time, nor did she have bruising or petechiae. She was unequivocally better in all ways. When her behavior started to go south a bit or she started feeling unduly cold, I would redose her remedy, and within 5 or 10 minutes, those symptoms would disappear. So, don't give up hope, but also keep in contact.

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Reply to 98,000!!! 9 years 8 months ago #31724

  • Sandi
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  • Sandi Forum Moderator Diagnosed in 1998, currently in remission. Diagnosed with Lupus in 2006. Last Count - 344k - 6-9-18
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You are missing the point. Tamar did not mean that the thread would go badly. She meant that the child's story could end badly.

There was no hysteria, only a few concerned individuals who happen to have a lot of common sense (exclude me from that, if you'd like).

We were not talking about ITP and low counts. We were concerned about the other symptoms in conjunction with the possibility of low counts.

I don't care how many phone conversations or how much written correspondence you have with people, you do not examine the patients yourself. I do respect what you do, but nothing compares to a physical examination. Do not try to convince me otherwise.

This 'advice over the Internet' stuff, coupled with the vehement stance to defend homeopathy (even at the possible expense of a life), is giving it a bad rap. I don't care how controlled you believe it is. I disagree.

I have tried to be fair and impartial. I have tried to be patient and open-minded. But I have reached a point where one of two things are going to happen. Either this ends now, or someone else can have this job. It's too much juggling for me.
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