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TOPIC: Flu season

Flu season 3 weeks 2 days ago #65214

  • Sandi
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"US data on influenza deaths are false and misleading. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledges a difference between flu death and flu associated death yet uses the terms interchangeably. Additionally, there are significant statistical incompatibilities between official estimates and national vital statistics data. Compounding these problems is a marketing of fear—a CDC communications strategy in which medical experts "predict dire outcomes" during flu seasons.

The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually "about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu" ( www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm ) and "influenza/pneumonia" is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States ( www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm ). But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterizing them as a single cause of death? David Rosenthal, director of Harvard University Health Services, said, "People don't necessarily die, per se, of the [flu] virus—the viraemia. What they die of is a secondary pneumonia. So many of these pneumonias are not viral pneumonias but secondary [pneumonias]." But Dr Rosenthal agreed that the flu/pneumonia relationship was not unique. For instance, a recent study (JAMA 2004;292: 1955-60[Abstract/Free Full Text]) found that stomach acid suppressing drugs are associated with a higher risk of community acquired pneumonia, but such drugs and pneumonia are not compiled as a single statistic. CDC states that the historic 1968-9 "Hong Kong flu" pandemic killed 34 000 Americans. At the same time, CDC claims 36 000 Americans annually die from flu. What is going on?

Meanwhile, according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), "influenza and pneumonia" took 62 034 lives in 2001—61 777 of which were attributed to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was flu virus positively identified. Between 1979 and 2002, NCHS data show an average 1348 flu deaths per year (range 257 to 3006). The NCHS data would be compatible with CDC mortality estimates if about half of the deaths classed by the NCHS as pneumonia were actually flu initiated secondary pneumonias. But the NCHS criteria indicate otherwise: "Cause-of-death statistics are based solely on the underlying cause of death... defined by WHO as `the disease or injury which initiated the train of events leading directly to death.'" In a written statement, CDC media relations responded to the diverse statistics: "Typically, influenza causes death when the infection leads to severe medical complications." And as most such cases "are never tested for virus infection...CDC considers these [NCHS] figures to be a very substantial undercounting of the true number of deaths from influenza. Therefore, the CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza." CDC's model calculated an average annual 36 155 deaths from influenza associated underlying respiratory and circulatory causes (JAMA 2003;289: 179-86[Abstract/Free Full Text]). Less than a quarter of these (8097) were described as flu or flu associated underlying pneumonia deaths. Thus the much publicised figure of 36 000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate—generated by a model—of flu-associated death. William Thompson of the CDC's National Immunization Program (NIP), and lead author of the CDC's 2003 JAMA article, explained that "influenza-associated mortality" is "a statistical association between deaths and viral data available." He said that an association does not imply an underlying cause of death: "Based on modelling, we think it's associated. I don't know that we would say that it's the underlying cause of death." Yet this stance is incompatible with the CDC assertion that the flu kills 36 000 people a year—a misrepresentation that is yet to be publicly corrected. Before 2003 CDC said that 20 000 influenza-associated deaths occurred each year. The new figure of 36 000 reported in the January 2003 JAMA paper is an estimate of influenza-associated mortality over the 1990s. Keiji Fukuda, a flu researcher and a co-author of the paper, has been quoted as offering two possible causes for this 80% increase: "One is that the number of people older than 65 is growing larger...The second possible reason is the type of virus that predominated in the 1990s [was more virulent]." However, the 65-plus population grew just 12% between 1990 and 2000. And if flu virus was truly more virulent over the 1990s, one would expect more deaths. But flu deaths recorded by the NCHS were on average 30% lower in the 1990s than the 1980s.

At the 2004 "National Influenza Vaccine Summit," co-sponsored by CDC and the American Medical Association, Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at the NIP, spoke on using the media to boost demand for the vaccine. One step of a "Seven-Step `Recipe' for Generating Interest in, and Demand for, Flu (or any other) Vaccination" occurs when "medical experts and public health authorities publicly...state concern and alarm (and predict dire outcomes)—and urge influenza vaccination" ( www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/36/2004_flu_nowak.pdf ). Another step entails "continued reports...that influenza is causing severe illness and/or affecting lots of people, helping foster the perception that many people are susceptible to a bad case of influenza." Preceding the summit, demand had been low early into the 2003 flu season. "At that point, the manufacturers were telling us that they weren't receiving a lot of orders for vaccine for use in November or even December," recalled Dr Nowak on National Public Radio. "It really did look like we needed to do something to encourage people to get a flu shot." If flu is in fact not a major cause of death, this public relations approach is surely exaggerated. Moreover, by arbitrarily linking flu with pneumonia, current data are statistically biased. Until corrected and until unbiased statistics are developed, the chances for sound discussion and public health policy are limited."

aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-%E2%80%94-influenza-deaths-request-correction-rfc?fbclid=IwAR2GHEbf_pHE_qkJ1Ep5f_jVJwDDmzGm3NL4FnhSOBNXteeiEsU9SOpheJk

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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 6 days ago #65233

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mrsb04 wrote: Hal
IMHO as a front line health professional ITP will not kill you but ‘flu could.
It’s a bigger picture than just protecting oneself. None vaccinated people could asymptomatically carry the flu virus and pass it on to someone else who then becomes critically ill and dies


Right. There are good reasons why healthcare workers are required to get Flu shots and related vaccinations.

I remember when I was young and worked in a Restaurant. Dealt with people all day, every day. Never got sick once, not even a little. It amazed me at the time. One would think the opposite experience would have occurred - lots of sick times. Never had a Flu shot then. Outside of that time period, get the Flu occasionally.

At the time, I theorized the possibility of briefly coming into contact with someone with a new Flu virus strain. Then develop antibodies to the new strain before the virus becomes pervasive. Later encountering others with the Flu in large quantities and having the antibodies available to not get sick.

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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 6 days ago #65243

  • mrsb04
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The reasons apply to everyone in a risk category not just health professionals.
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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 6 days ago #65246

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My thought - if you don't like what is out there call it fake news ;)
Flu death, flu associated death - what's the difference? Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe - it's all the same.
A flu associated/related death would not have happened had it not been for the person having the flu, period.
A young child in Florida, a woman in Kentucky have already died in October due to what, flu or flu related - does it really matter, their lives are lost too early and why?
"Instead of wasting your time worrying about symptoms, just get it checked out" -Nieca Goldberg, MD
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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 2 days ago #65276

  • Sandi
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I moved this down here so we didn't hijack Maria's thread with flu shot stuff. :)
Okay.

MelA wrote: My thought - if you don't like what is out there call it fake news ;)
Flu death, flu associated death - what's the difference? Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe - it's all the same.
A flu associated/related death would not have happened had it not been for the person having the flu, period.
A young child in Florida, a woman in Kentucky have already died in October due to what, flu or flu related - does it really matter, their lives are lost too early and why?


1. Did you notice the link I posted to that article? It was hhs.gov/cdc It doesn't get any better than that. It can't be fake news if it's coming from Health and Human Services.
2. The point is that they are counting all non-flu related pneumonia/respiratory deaths in with the total flu count.
3. A Senator just died from the flu shot. This is not the first death I've heard of this year.
www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/nyregion/jose-peralta-dominican-american-senator-dead.html?fbclid=IwAR2jjKN16NS6lTC9H3z3efR8vsfQ3SjdrqQizXMxrHF0VP67Qx-AF-Htb_E

This young woman died despite getting a flu shot:
abcnews.go.com/Health/newlywed-dies-sepsis-flu/story?id=28253815

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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 2 days ago #65277

  • Sandi
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I know you guys think I'm nuts but follow along for a minute. I noticed a few years ago that things we are told do NOT line up with the truth/facts. Not at all. When you start researching, you find some very interesting things. Like this:

We see this commercial on TV about the whooping cough vaccine. All family members are encouraged to get it to protect newborn babies.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5qfwk1bC_Q

But here's the thing. The pertussis vaccine only prevents symptoms. It does not stop a person from contracting and spreading the illness. That is a fairly well-known fact. The CDC knows it but I'll bet most doctors do not. But the CDC keeps pushing it. Why? It actually places the baby in more danger because anyone who gets the vaccine can become an asymptomatic carrier. If Grandma is coughing, she won't go around the baby. But if she gets the vaccine and contracts whooping cough, she won't know it and can spread it to the baby. Credible sources below. All it takes are some critical thinking skills to see what is going on. Again, what we are told does NOT line up with the truth. This is only one example.

www.bu.edu/sph/2017/09/21/resurgence-of-whooping-cough-may-owe-to-vaccines-inability-to-prevent-infections/

www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/11/20/1314688110

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24216286/%E2%80%AC/

wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150624071018.htm?fbclid=IwAR0udChwCFJxgsvr_gFHlWZ8qEL_6FscEO_A8-cDgec_gyH4-tVVnjT0_OE

web.archive.org/web/20131130004447/https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm

www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/education/article_7f291346-e835-11e8-a7d7-fb581bf6221e.html

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Petechiae, but no bruising in 3 year old? 2 weeks 1 day ago #65300

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Oh, I wonder what happened. Sandi, did you get permission from the moderator to move these posts :-)

Not to throw wrenches, but I would like to add a comment. Seems the situation on Flu shots may get more complicated, soon, in regards to Parkinson's disease. Here is an article on this. It is anti-climatic, but informative on some very good evidence on the disease.

"Flu jabs and Parkinson’s disease"
scienceofparkinsons.com/2017/06/06/flu-jabs-and-parkinsons-disease/

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Flu season 2 weeks 16 hours ago #65314

  • Sandi
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I moved it out of Maria's thread because I didn't want her posts to be consumed with this.

Counter argument:
"Al salts (hydroxide and phosphate) are the most commonly used vaccine adjuvants and, until recently, the only adjuvants licensed for use in the USA [79–89]. In the absence of Al, according to their manufacturers, antigenic components of most vaccines (with the exception of live attenuated vaccines) fail to elicit the desired level of immune response [66, 80]. Although Al is neurotoxic, it is claimed by proponents that the concentrations at which Al is used in the vaccines do not represent a health hazard [19]. For that reason, vaccine trials often treat an Al adjuvant-containing injection as a harmless “placebo” (a comparison benchmark or control treatment) or they use another Al-containing vaccine to treat a “control group,” despite evidence that Al in vaccine-relevant exposures is universally toxic to humans and animals [9, 90, 91]. Its use in a supposed “placebo” or in any “control” treatment in vaccine trials is indefensible [95]. It is precisely analogous to comparing fire A against fire B, to make the argument that since A is no hotter than B, A is therefore not a fire.

During the last decade, studies on animal models and humans have shown that Al adjuvants by themselves cause autoimmune and inflammatory conditions [19, 79–81, 90, 95–103]. The animal models show that subcutaneous injections of Al hydroxide induced apoptotic neuronal death and decreased motor function in mice [2, 37–39] and sheep [43]. In newborn mice they were associated with weight increases, behavioral changes, and increased anxiety [2]. All these findings plausibly implicate Al adjuvants in pediatric vaccines as causal factors contributing to increased rates of autism spectrum disorders in countries where multiple doses are almost universally administered [9]. Also, as shown by Goldman and Miller in studies published in 2011 and 2012, strong correlations between infant mortality rates and the number of doses of vaccines administered also suggest deleterious impact of multiple exposures to their components.
Follow-up experiments focusing on Al adjuvants in mice by Khan et al. [106] have shown that the adjuvants do not stay localized in the muscle tissue upon intramuscular injection. The particles can travel to the spleen and brain where they can be detected up to a year after the injection. Such findings refute the notion that adjuvant nanoparticles remain localized and act through a “depot effect.” On the contrary, the Al from vaccine adjuvants does cross the blood-brain and blood-cerebrospinal fluid barriers and incites deleterious immunoinflammatory responses in neural tissues [1–3, 9]. Tracking experiments in mice reveal that some Al hydroxide nanoparticles escape the injected muscle inside immune system cells such as macrophages, which travel to regional draining lymph nodes, where it can exit to the bloodstream gaining access to all organ systems, including the brain. As Khan et al. [106] have warned, repeated doses of Al hydroxide are “insidiously unsafe,” especially in closely spaced challenges presented to an infant or a person with damaged or immature blood brain or cerebrospinal fluid barriers [2]. Given macrophages acting as highly mobile “Trojan horses” [107], the Khan et al. warning suggests that cumulative Al from repeated doses in vaccines can produce the cognitive deficits associated with long-term encephalopathies and degenerative dementias in humans [40, 99].

The latest research by Luján et al. [43] described a severe neurodegenerative syndrome in commercial sheep linked to the repetitive inoculation of Al-containing vaccines. In particular, the “sheep adjuvant syndrome” mimics in many aspects human neurological diseases linked to Al adjuvants. Moreover, the outcomes in sheep were first identified following a mass-vaccination campaign against blue tongue and have now been successfully reproduced under experimental conditions following administration of Al-containing vaccines. Notably, the adverse chronic phase of this syndrome affects 50–70% of the treated flocks and up to 100% of the animals within a given flock. The disorder is made worse by cold weather conditions, suggesting synergy with other stress producing factors. The disorder is characterized by severe neurobehavioral outcomes—restlessness, compulsive wool biting, generalized weakness, muscle tremors, loss of response to stimuli, ataxia, tetraplegia, stupor, inflammatory lesions in the brain and the presence of Al in the CNS tissues, coma, and death [43]. These findings confirm and extend those of Khan et al. [106] who demonstrated the ability of Al adjuvants to cross the BBB, and they show that Al in the brain can trigger severe long-term neurological damage. The findings by Luján et al. [43] and Khan et al. [106] also show how and why reported adverse reactions following vaccinations are most commonly neurological and neuropsychiatric."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4202242/

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Flu season 2 weeks 16 hours ago #65315

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"Background:

Recent studies suggest that influenza vaccine effectiveness (VE) may wane over the course of an influenza season, leading to suboptimal VE during late influenza seasons.
Methods:

We examined the association between influenza VE and time since vaccination among patients ≥9 years old with medically-attended acute respiratory illness in the US Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network using data pooled from the 2011-12 through 2014-15 influenza seasons. We used multivariate logistic regression with PCR-confirmed influenza infection as the outcome and vaccination status defined by days between vaccination and symptom onset as the predictor. Models were adjusted for calendar time and other potential confounding factors.
Results:

We observed decreasing VE with increasing time since vaccination for influenza A(H3N2) (p=0.004), influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (p=0.01), and influenza B viruses (p=0.04). Maximum VE was observed shortly after vaccination, followed by a decline in VE of about 7% (absolute) per month for influenza A(H3N2) and influenza B and 6% - 11% per month for influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 viruses. VE remained greater than zero for at least six months for influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 and influenza B and at least five months for influenza A(H3N2) viruses. Decline in VE was more pronounced among patients with prior season influenza vaccination. A similar pattern of increasing influenza risk with increasing time since vaccination was seen in analyses limited to vaccinees.
Conclusions:

We observed decreasing influenza vaccine protection with increasing time since vaccination across influenza types/subtypes. This association is consistent with intraseason waning of host immunity, but bias or residual confounding could explain these findings."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28039340?fbclid=IwAR32ddufRLMR7F10GQ8hyDRO65JFqNGZn-DTEnKo7YEEQlMfirh1QAUK9xU

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Flu season 2 weeks 16 hours ago #65317

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Sandi, how do we know Peralta died from the flu shot?
PS permission granted to move things around ;)
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Flu season 2 weeks 12 hours ago #65319

  • Sandi
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He believed that his symptoms were related to the flu shot. His wife also strongly suspects it. That's all I know, but it's not unheard of.

I've had some conversations lately with people who work at nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Quite a few have said that so many deaths occur around flu shot time that they call it 'thinning the herd'. I also had a conversation with a social worker. Her job is to be a ward for hundreds of seniors who have no family. Part of her duty is to sign off on the flu shot. She said that she started to notice many elderly people dying after the shot that had been doing well. She decided that she cannot, in good conscience, sign off any longer. She was going to tell her supervisor knowing full well that she would more than likely lose her job.

As I said above, what we are told does not line up with the facts.

I wanted to keep your thread just about your son and you. :)

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Flu season 1 week 4 days ago #65330

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Personally I would want a better reason than "he believed" & "strongly suspects". It's like trying to prove that my PN is due to having been given Cipro a number of times - can't prove it.

I strongly suspect & believe my ITP started due to the gamma globulin injection I received a few days before symptoms appeared, can I prove it?, no I can't but my hematologist feels that is that case. And neither can this man nor his wife prove his symptoms were from a flu shot or that his death was caused by a flu shot.

I'd like to know how the social worker will feel when one or more of her patients/clients [old folks] dies of complications of the flu after she refused to let them have one. Nursing homes of all places are a germ factory, flu/c-diff/colds/bugs of all sorts make the rounds in those places!!
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Flu season 1 week 4 days ago #65331

  • mrsb04
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I agree Mel..from what I understand he died from sepsis. He had the flu shot and thought his symptoms were related to that. I read one article where it states his wife said he had been poorly for a couple of weeks. One has to question why he didn't get himself checked out.

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Flu season 1 week 3 days ago #65332

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3. A Senator just died from the flu shot.
The article doesn't say he died from the injection that I could see - so this statement is not true and it isn't right to say that & cause panic among people!

This article says he died from sepsis - IMHO had he gone to the doctor sooner instead of ignoring that he was sick maybe, just maybe, he could have been treated and maybe, just maybe, not died. Who knows.
nypost.com/2018/11/23/new-york-state-senator-jose-peraltas-cause-of-death-revealed/
Says sepsis but that more tests need to be done. May he rest in peace.
"Instead of wasting your time worrying about symptoms, just get it checked out" -Nieca Goldberg, MD

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Flu season 1 week 2 days ago #65339

  • Sandi
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I can remember when the flu was just the flu. No vaccines for that when I was a kid, and we didn't even give it a thought. The same thing when my kids were growing up; no fear and I never gave it a thought. It has slowly become this huge thing that always equals death and the vaccine is pushed everywhere you go. It would be one thing if it were actually effective and had no risks, but the studies I'm seeing do not support efficacy or safety. I have tons of them. I'd post them, but no one would look at them anyway. I have studies that show that getting the flu shot causes a person to be more at risk for other respiratory illnesses (including pneumonia). This is one reason:

Original Antigenic Sin
A poorly-matched influenza vaccine may cause illness (and increase risk of influenza illness) by a phenomenon in immunology known as “original antigenic sin” (OAS). First discovered in 1960, OAS is well known and firmly established. Its described in any immunology textbook. OAS occurs in this scenario:

1) There is an illness with pathogen strain #1. The immune system learns and remembers how to make antibodies for strain #1. Pathogen can be virus, bacteria etc.
2) There is a second illness with strain #2, of the same pathogen. For example dengue virus is well known to cause OAS (dengue has 4 strains).
3) During the second illness, the immune system responds as if strain #1 is attacking, because it “remembers” strain #1. The problem is that the antibodies for strain #1 are not effective against strain #2 (the antibodies are not a good fit). The result is a defective (and delayed) immune response. The illness from strain #2 is therefore much worse. In fact, it can be life threatening (this happens with dengue).

OAS is why a first dengue illness is mild, but a second case of dengue (involving a different dengue strain) can be very severe and long lasting. A second dengue infection can be fatal due to OAS.

By receiving an influenza vaccine that is poorly matched to circulating strains, the immune system is improperly trained. Improper immune training is worse than no training at all. The OAS phenomenon may explain the results of the Bridges study.


The studies I posted above about the pertussis vaccine should be a huge red flag. It's pushed on everyone but the CDC knows full well that it does not prevent transmission of whooping cough. That is a huge thing!

Here are some facts that most people do not know:

1. Prior to 1986, vaccine injury and death was so common that manufacturer's were getting sued left and right. They threatened to stop making vaccines, but Ronald Reagan passed a bill that took all liability away from manufacturers; the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. People now have to file a suit with the federal government. The program is funded by a charge tacked on to every vaccine. The program has paid out at least four billion dollars to date. After liability was removed, the vaccine schedule exploded. There are over 150 more in the pipeline. What other company on earth bears no liability for their own product?

2. The CDC owns at least 20 vaccine patents. (No conflict of interest there)

3. Safety studies are not conducted properly. Nearly every clinical trial for vaccines does not use an inert placebo. They use another vaccine or the adjuvants to compare adverse reactions. It's always been done this way. The theory is that if one is 'assumed' to be safe, the other will be 'assumed' to be safe, even if a new adjuvant is used. That's our science.

4. Pediatricians get very large bonuses for having a high percentage of patients fully vaccinated by the age of two.

5. Jonas Salk did not save the world from polio. His vaccine caused 40,000 cases of polio and killed 10 children.

6. The Sabin polio vaccine was contaminated with a cancer-causing monkey virus (SV-40) and given to millions of children in the late 50's to early 60's. Animal viruses are still in vaccines.

We believe what we are told without question. Why? I started questioning five years ago when I found out that babies were given a Hep B at birth. Why on earth would a baby need a vaccine for an illness that is transmitted through sex and dirty needles? That vaccine was only studied for safety in infants for five days. I've put a lot of time into researching this (five years). I have collected many, many studies from the British Medical Journal, the Journal of Toxicology, the NIH, The Lancet, etc. There are many things that are eye-opening, and the biggest thing is that our bodies are attacking themselves which is supported in the literature.

You're right, I don't know for sure why that Senator died. It's sad. But I won't discount the vaccine as a cause. Sepsis can also be a result of SIRS (Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) and vaccines are inflammatory. They wouldn't work if they weren't. Efficacy is already poor so the adjuvants keep getting stronger. We'll never know what happened because the media is silent about this (notice all of the constant commercials). All deaths are tragic, but not all can be prevented. We can produce 600 vaccines and still not prevent it. The problem is that we have no informed consent and that is a pretty big thing. Also, everyone needs to be able to retain the right to say no because if vaccines are mandated, we're going down a pretty scary path. They are classified as 'biologics' now.

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Flu season 1 week 1 day ago #65343

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Way too long so not reading it. Did skim though.

I found this:
"Sepsis is the systemic response to infection and is defined as the presence of SIRS in addition to a documented or presumed infection. Severe sepsis meets the aforementioned criteria and is associated with organ dysfunction, hypoperfusion, or hypotension. May 7, 2018"

My point was: To post that someone died from a flu shot when there is no proof of that being the cause of death is totally wrong!! My thought was that you were trying to force your opinion of never being given vaccines. I really wish you would put this effort of yours into finding the cure of pancreatic cancer or alzheimers or something.
"Instead of wasting your time worrying about symptoms, just get it checked out" -Nieca Goldberg, MD

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Flu season 2 days 18 hours ago #65399

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Melinda:
If I didn't have highly credible studies to back up what I'm saying here, I wouldn't be saying any of it. The problem is that no one wants to even consider the possibility of anything I'm saying. This isn't just my opinion; it's based on facts. From my observation, vaccines are the leading cause of coincidence.

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Flu season 2 days 14 hours ago #65401

  • MelA
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You and I will forever butt heads on this subject - that is why I am not commenting except to say [again]:
It was wrong to sensationalize the death of the senator by saying he died from a flu shot when there is no proof of that.
That was and still is my point.

There is a huge possibility that some inconsiderate $@%$& will go to the grocery store while ill with the flu and sneeze or cough as I am pushing my cart by him/her and give me the flu therefore I will continue to get flu shots!! People need to consider for themselves not by sensationalism that is posted here, whether a flu shot is for them or not. And if "The problem is that no one wants to even consider the possibility of anything I'm saying" maybe you should stop trying to beat a dead horse.
"Instead of wasting your time worrying about symptoms, just get it checked out" -Nieca Goldberg, MD

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Flu season 6 hours 23 minutes ago #65415

  • JJ
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Sandi wrote: I can remember when the flu was just the flu. No vaccines for that when I was a kid, and we didn't even give it a thought. The same thing when my kids were growing up; no fear and I never gave it a thought. It has slowly become this huge thing that always equals death and the vaccine is pushed everywhere you go.


Oh my! Your knowledge of history is sadly lacking. There have been mass deaths from flu. The flu pandemic of 1918 killed many, many millions of people. The pandemic of 1957 killed a few million too. In 1968 at least a million died. We don't see those numbers dying now, maybe, just maybe, because of the vaccines.
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